/sffg/ - Science Fiction & Fantasy General

Gene Wolfe's short fiction is at least as good as his novels. They just don't have the same meme-value.

>Those Who Hunt the Night
>Traveling with the Dead

I'm only reading this shit because I'm out of books and apparently several characters from Coldfire is directly lifted from here (like Ysidro = Gerald minus the magic and Ciani = Lydia) and the world is significantly more boring since it's essentially vampires in alt history.

These books are surprisingly on the point with references to things like Leeuwenhoek's animalcules although I must admit there are ridiculously detailed to the point of snortworthy moments when the books started referencing things like onychogryphosis and unscientific things such as cephalic indexes and Brachycephalic head shapes which clearly indicates that the author did their research in terms of what is/what is not around.

I would not exactly recommend these books, however, because the worldbuilding:plot ratio seems to be about 8 to 1 and moves very slowly. The first book is essentially a London period murder mystery with vampires and the second book starts out with espionage and tailings and and now it seems to have gone into digressions that are worthy of the Star Wars taxation meme:
>There were more than a score of corporations and investors that seemed to fit the criteria. More people than a single vampire had guessed the way the wind was blowing back in July and started transferring funds into less vulnerable forms than real estate and gold.
Also the second book is currently about muslims and what seems to be a reference to Koschei the Deathless.

Worth reading?

Just read Book of the New Sun over the last month, starting on Urth of the New Sun because I have nothing better to do.
Some things I didn't understand: was Jonas just a cyborg, or some kind of flesh stealing machine? What was the deal with Jonas being apparently ressurecte in Miles? How hard did Serverian fuck Valeria at the end of the book?

Read Dinosaur Beach or The End of Eternity instead.

I'd kind of recommened reading BotNS twice before going into Urth to catch it all but Urth will answer several of these. Particularly the nature of Jonas and a bit of elaboration on Sev's relationship with Valeria.

His best collection. The caveat to wolfe is "garbage in garbage out." Most people are dimwits. Wolfe isn't.

>and other stories and other stories

That's cause the collection contains the story "The Island of Doctor Death and Other Stories" and it also contains other stories than that one.

That's a good idea.
[Spoiler] >mfw that dickhead wrote a million books and I haven't even finished my first draft. [/spoiler]

>reddit

don't do this ever again. please delete this post right now.

what sound do things make when they go over your head?

Michael Swanwicks Vacuum Flowers

I thought it was interesting.

Its not underrated, the island of doctor death and other stories is what first rose Wolfe to prominence and paved the way for the other a doctor stories and his first go at novels

Its a literary joke

It was originally a misprint I think. Left uncorrected because it was funny.

Last thing I read was The Collected Stories of Philip K. Dick, Volume 5: We Can Remember It For You Wholesale Total Recall was more interesting than the title short story
I think Cadbury, The Beaver Who Lacked and Faith of our Fathers alone made it worth the read. But there were a couple of really good ones that activated my almonds too. Not very consistent though since it covers I think 18 years of his career.

Anything come out recently or about to come out?

>Total Recall was more interesting than the title short story
Most film adaptations succeed PKD's originals. Part of his appeal to filmmakers, imo.

Faith of Our Fathers is criminally underrated, an incredible story. Just look at the effort that went into the parts about detecting subversive subtexts in the essays of teenagers in occupied California.

I don't know. Personally I think A Scanner Darkly kind of failed, it cut out my favorite parts of the book atleast they only spend like 5 seconds with Actor in the New Path clinic which is criminal since that was easily the best part of the book. Also missing the aspect of Actor not really recognizing himself on the camera since his brain is all fried
Still, I'd absolutely love to see a Faith of our Fathers movie.

That would be nonsensical.

>What did you last read? What did you think about it?
The Library at Mount Char
really enjoyed the twist, totally expected a happy ending but thinking back about how Father was I shouldn't have
the use of magic was good, no explicit spell usage but you had to gather ingredients, prepare to use it

>Read pic related -- "Triplanetary" by E.E. Smith -- as part of a batch of old paperbacks I picked up at a used bookstore.
Did the same thing a year or two ago. I still haven't come across a copy of Galactic Patrol, but am trying not to write off the series completely until I've read it. I agree with your assessment of Triplanetary, and it ended up being painfully boring to read.

I think people are willing to write that first one off as an extreme situation. But as it goes on, you realize that's just Kellhus being Kellhus.

Who is that toon and why does she want dick?

Magic doesn't exist. It's a myth. All these are carefully explained sciences.

Just finished Children of Hurin. God what a shit life Turin had. The curse Morgoth put upon him didn't seem that strong at first but it just kept building and building.

Linklater pussied out. He was willing to show how fucked up druggies are, but he wasn't willing to show how fucked up the Maoist philosophy of rehab clinics are. Same deal with not reprinting the "drug misuse is a decision, not a disease" line, which after reading the ending -- where Arctor doesn't even know who he is anymore -- and turning the page that sentence hit me like a ton of bricks.

>Most film adaptations succeed PKD's originals. Part of his appeal to filmmakers, imo.
I disagree that it's his appeal to filmmakers. I think it has to do more with the fact that filmmakers would like to add some sort of intelligence and clever idea to their otherwise dumb action/thriller movie. So they dive into PDK's bag of tricks sometimes successfully, but not always.

How much for you to read all the PKD short stories and put together a list of the one worth reading?

It's on my list of things to do desu. Just need to find the other books in the series, or just get them online I suppose. But I'm also trying to pace myself since he did write quite a bit.
Since you're interested. Holy Quarrel, Strange Memories of Death, The Exit Door Leads In, Retreat Syndrome, Chains of Air, Web of Aether and to a certain extend The Pre-Persons were among my favorite from that volume.

I loved Glaurung the dragon in that book. His charisma and hypnotic stare reminded me of Dracula.

Yeah legit one of the best dragons I've seen in a fantasy. Tolkien's dragons always seem to have real personality, and I love how the most evil and terrifying thing about him wasn't the physical destruction he brought to wherever he went, but the way he could twist and manipulate those he set his will on.

I've read them all, volumes 1-5. I'd personally recommend the first two or three, by the end they're more like bad plot sketches for novels.

"Wheeeeeeee!"

Recently made my first foray into fantasy with The Hobbit followed by The Fellowship and I am enjoying it immensely.

Where should I go after LoTR? Deeper into Tolkien or start exploring other fantasy?

What is Veeky Forumss opinion on LotR? I've lurked here for a long time but rarely see it discussed.

If you want to know more about the backstory of LoTR, give The Silmarillion a go.
I'm more into SF than fantasy, but i really enjoyed the Earthsea books by Ursula Le Guin, and also the original Conan the Barbarian short stories by Robert E Howard were excellent.

If you scroll up just a bit you can see me and another user having a little chat about Children of Hurin, which is a story by Tolkien published posthumously by his son, who edited it from various drafts and notes his father left behind. It's a tragedy set in the First Age, thousands of years before the events in the Hobbit and LotR, which are in the Third Age. But before you read Children of Hurin it might be a good idea to crack open the Silmarillion, which is like the bible of Middle Earth that Tolkien created to explain the origins of the world and tell the complete history of the Elves. The Silmarillion was also published posthumously, similar to Children of Hurin it is a compilation of various drafts and notes he had about his constructed world. It makes you realize just how deep Middle Earth is as a setting, LotR only scratched the surface of it. He had whole epics written that were never published, songs and poems too.

LotR is one of those series that has been discussed to death. Every now and then you might get people reminiscing about it or some other part of Middle Earth lore, but in terms of interesting conversation there's really nothing to say that hasn't already been said many times.

As to where to go, there's no shortage of authors who are derivative of Tolkien if you want to follow that route, but I suspect you'll only be disappointed because if you like Tolkien I doubt you'd be satisfied with shallow imitations of his work. If you want to get into contemporary stuff (books published in the last 20 or so years) then you'd be surprised to see how much of it doesn't really reference or rely on Tolkien's ideas, he's not as relevant as you'd think in modern fantasy. I'd say the 80s was the last time Tolkienites were very prominent in the fantasy scene, and the 90s you had some last gasps but as of 2000 the scene has pretty much moved on and now gritty fantasy is in vogue. You can read more of the classic authors if you want, though.

Silmarillion it will be then. Thanks for all of the info. I've seen the Histories of Middle-Earth but for some reason I've always assumed they would be a bit of a disappointment but maybe I'll check them out after that.

I feel like it will be difficult to read any other fantasy after this because it won't compare to how much I'm enjoying it.

It depends on what you love about it. One of the big barriers to enjoying Tolkien is his old fashioned writing style, but since that's obviously not a barrier to you it might just be that you prefer that style of writing, in which case moving on to other authors might be hard since his writing style isn't that common.

Also, the Silmarillion is not a dry history, it's written in the style of an epic, like the Prose Edda. It is a series of stories about the Creation of Arda and Middle Earth as well as the coming and sundering of the Elves, and the various great deeds of the Ages of Middle Earth. There's many enthralling stories there, but it might be hard to read the whole thing cover to cover. I read it piecemeal as my interest for different parts increased. You certainly could read the entire thing cover to cover if you wanted, but you don't have to.

I've just had this series recommended to me by a friend, is it any good?

Yeah I'd always heard the Silmarillion was supposed to be this long, dry, tough-to-read history but if it takes on the form of an epic then I'll absolutely enjoy it. I mainly read classical literature so I don't find the writing style a huge barrier, I actually think it's perfect as it feels damn close to reading an ancient epic despite being only a century or so old. It fascinates me that all of this mythology and lore has come from the hand and mind of a single man with a little help from his friends.

Started reading The Golden Age and I'm really enjoying it so far. Are Wright's books usually this good?

Tolkien was a scholar and an expert on Germanic folklore, in addition to being a professional linguist. He has scholarly translations of Beowulf as well as Sir Gawain and the Green Knight. He knew his shit, there's a reason he captures the feeling of ancient storytelling so well.

>Perry's first meeting at Madame's chapter

Holy FUCK boys Palmer pulled the wool over all three of my eyes then date-raped my retinas holy FUCK

i'm a couple chapters ahead & shit goes tits up even further

>JEDD Mason talking to Tully at the senate
HOLY FUCK

In The Silmarillion, Tolkien crams more epic tragic-heroism into single paragraphs than many other authors manage in their entire canon.

Just read The First Law trilogy and the standalone novels from Joe Abercrombie, can some kind anons recommend some more novels similar to these?

>JEDD Mason talking to Tully at the senate

The short answer is no, the longer answer is that he's kind of uneven but always has great concepts. His main flaws are long-windedness and excessive sentimentality; IIRC you catch a whiff of this in the third Golden Age book but it infests some of his lesser works.

>Settling Accounts
>My boy Robert Taft gets killed in a mormon suicide bombing
Its just not fair lads

>same user from a few weeks ago that gave us an review with the same "unamed.jpg" is pretending like he never read it

>samefagging so hard

If you just take the time to sit down and write out a short paragraph or two about why you like the book instead of samefagging shitposts you'd be a more effective shill, and with the time limit between posts it would probably be faster.

What does /sffg/ think of pic related?

I hardly even come to Veeky Forums you fucking faggot. It's almost as if the other guy pulled the same picture off the front page of Google, what a surprise.

thanks detective user

I dunno man

it doesn't matter if I read The Once and Future King before/after The Lord of the Rings, right? i can read all this fantasy in any order?

or does it borrow/reference it or something? further, the same goes for everything Tolkien inspired, no? so i can read Malazan Book of the Fallen alongside LotR or before it or after it....or should i just read LotR first because it inspired the entire genre?

also: for books inspired by/about King Arthur, the same question: should i read The Death of King Arthur before Idylls of the King, or should i just read it in whatever order i want? i was going to read Tennsyon's story before the famous Malory one. i have a very basic, casual understanding of King Arthur, his knights and the round table (Sir Gawain, Lancelot) and Merlin and all that. further, the same goes for T.H. White's stories...or should i read the previous King Arthur stories before Tennyson's and White's for "foundation"

i know this is an autistic question but where do you think we are

You're overthinking it. The only 100% solid piece of advice I can give you is 'Don't read Malazan'.

Kek, why not? I see it get sucked off absolutely everywhere and only LotR and The Book of the New Sun held higher than it.

So apparently the consult has secured total victory by the end of TUC

That's because plebs are everywhere. It's a soap opera with swordfights and autism.

I hear how epic it is though and I love epic fantasy.

What would you say is a better epic fantasy than it?

Define 'epic fantasy' for me. If you just want something that's long as fuck and will occupy loads of your time I suppose it's fine enough.

Lots of characters from various factions/lands, big plot (whole world is involved). Preferably political intrigue. Like A Song of Ice and Fire.

it's about as epic as it's possible to be

What's the best edition of man in the high castle?

Sounds like you're the type that might enjoy Malazan then. A recommendation before you begin though, consider taking a large dose of PCP and then murdering your entire extended family and then yourself.

Finished Fall of Hyperion and enjoyed it except almost laughing at one point due to the author's Keat fanboying.

Spoilers

Only thing that bothered me was the Jewish professors rationalization of giving his daughter to the Shrike. It just seemed like Jewish pilpul, I mean the daughter would have died or been put on the tree if Keats hadn't come along.

I read an opinion in a review on someone's blog that the inherent nihilism of the Three Body Problem series's approach to interstellar civilization is a product of an atheist society like China's, which a writer from a Judeo-Christian influenced culture would have trouble producing. Is there any validity to this hypothesis? Surely there have been Westerners who wrote works with similar themes.

Below is the passage where he asserts this claim.

>I find Death’s End, and the series in general,mostfascinating, though, as a product of atheism. Not just a work influenced by atheism, or the product of an atheist (I have no idea if Cixin Liu is or isn’t), but a work that is the product of anatheistic society. And not just in the more direct ways it addresses religion (“The discovery of the dark forest state of the universe was a giant blow to most major religions, especially Christianity”). Or even Cheng Xin repeatedly playing the role of either Eve or Messiah (“I want to tell all those who believe in God that I am not the Chosen One. I also want to tell all the atheists that I am not a history-maker. I am but an ordinary person.”)

>I distinguish between a work written by an atheist and the product of an atheistic society because works written by Western atheists, especially American atheists, are still working from essentially a Judeo-Christian perspective. Even if they are reacting against it, their work can still be defined in relation to it. The typical nihilism inmodern storytelling, then, is an act of rebellion that we can try to rationalize away—for there to be a rebellion, there must be a dominant order. The nihilism of Death’s End, on the other hand, is pervasive, and thusterrifying. Other books are dark in a way that makes you happy you can set them aside and return to normal life after you’re done reading. The darkness of Death’s End is fundamental, and reaches beyond the four corners of the book. The Trisolaran threat, the threat of a Dark Forest strike, the mindboggling timescale, space itself, all serve to reinforce that underlying nihilism. After all, is there anything more frightening than space to the atheist? They look up and see not the glory of God’s creation but instead an infinite emptiness creating ever more oppressive loneliness. Liu returns to it, again and again.

Ubik

Any good LitRPG?

Ubik

Try "The Legend of Randidly Ghosthound"

Not really sci-fi, but it's modern. However, it's super top tier.

Feeling those threads growing a little stale and wilted? Maybe those discussions aren't going anywhere or are lacking energy. Fear not! Ubik is scientifically proven to reinvigorate any Veeky Forums thread and will keep it away from the bump limit! Safe when applied as directed.

Any books that have recently concluded? So tired of seeing 1-2 books out of 6.

Where's there's tears there's hope.

These are hype-posters, not shilling

Ubik or ubik?
vocaroo.com/i/s0oCV22M7t2U

Why is Ubik a meme of all of Cock's work? It's one of the most 'Twilight Zone'-tier things he ever wrote. Cheap twists and the 'and then he woke up again and found that the last three waking ups were just additional layers of dreams' type hackery that makes so much of his writing boring.

Finished my read of Lord of Chaos by RJ and the Phoenix on the Sword by Howard

LoC is a book I always struggle to get through, even though I love the start and the finish. For some reason I always find it harder to get through than the later books, despite their slower pace. I imagine it's because it's the first book where the pace noticeably slows. Still love it though.

PotS was my first foray into Conan, and it was awesome. Really does make me wish for longer novels

Ubik

well it's spelt oo-bick
but from ubiquitous it would be eu-bick

>He doesn't know how to have fun
Where do you think we are. Sometimes you just want a male soap opera with swords.

What would you recommend me in it's stead, O enlightened one? Lemme guess, LotR. Yeah everyone knows it's a masterpiece, friend.

The Worm Ouroboros

>See some interesting series
>Womameme author
God fucking damn it, why does this keep happening

Kobolds in fiction as main characters?

Just finished The Three Body problem and it was an excellent read. Ultimately a couple of interesting explorations of concept, forays into ethical dilemmas of new species existence for a layman, would read again.

I need to find The Dark Forest.