Why do Veeky Forumsizens tell people to go back to video games, anime, manga, and TV?

>Anyway, not everyone can read hard literature all the time,

that's right, some people are mediocre and lack willpower

i don't want to sound like a dick. i've played games all my life. loved them dearly, went into such depraved love that i played dwarf fortress and Omega RL for days on end. this is just a preface to tell you that not a single one of these games, which i've played most of, come anywhere close to what i consider great literature. in their right, these games are beautiful, fun, atmospheric, and wonderful. Literature simply has so much more to offer. entire lives are born and die deep in your psyche as you sift through an atmosphere tightly controlled by a single person's pen. you fall in love, truly, with people who literally have never and will never exist, you see sights beyond your wildest dreams, and open doorways into god's domain. you dissect and break through the cruel boundaries of solipsism that we suffer by submerging yourself in the minds of others. It is more than emotional connections that i usually experience in video games or manga, that tingle of excitement, that intellectual chuckle of the theatrics of a tv show character, but never have i felt the dust under my fingertips as i hid my gold under a floorboard as i did when i read silas marner, for example. these tiny moments that are so infinitely personal, so memorable, so defined and nuanced, they just never come to such a climax in the lesser arts like they do with literature.

Literature is actually a really shitty medium and is only made for brainlets who can't understand nonfiction and homosexuals who want to feel smart.

Tbh, I've never had an emotional connection from anything else that comes close to either Persona 3 or 4.

I'm being completely serious. I felt like I'd made friends, and after they'd ended I had to walk outside for a while to get over it.

BB is a PS4 exclusive though (sadly).

projecting much?

I bought a (admittedly used and pretty cheap) PS4 just to play BB. It was worth it.

This post doesn't even mean anything, you just chose a meme at random and posted it as your response. This is why you should spend less time reading literature.

>play DS1 on PC
>fall in love
>want more beating after the game 20+ times
>jesus christ DS2 sucks
>DS3 seems like it's derivative of 1
>DeS and BB seem like everything i liked about DS1 pushed into two logical conclusions
>PS3 and PS4 exclusives
>have neither
>PS4 isn't retrocompatible
You had one fucking job Sony.

King's Field it is then.

running the risk of sounding like an asshole, you need to read more literature. I played through Persona 3, and its relationship sim aspects are though interactive and entertaining, mere phantoms of the psychological depth that can be derived from literature and the characters within. needless to say, you're still identifying with these characters not through the game as a graphical experience, but rather the textual, narrative, and philosophical aspects, all of which are ultimately derived from and perfected in literature. you are reading a gimped book. I do hope you enjoy yourself regardless, but i remember playing through rpgs on and on, and one day realizing it was never enough, the stories were just too diluted, themes could never come to fruition because of the scattered attentions of its creators. nothing like the charged creativity of a man and the assistance of an editor or two.

I feel ya. Still haven't played DeS because of this. Hoping someday they'll do a remaster, but I doubt it.

>Weimer era filmography
>video games, anime, manga, and TV?

how's your reading comprehension user

I legitimately miss characters from Proust's novel
tfw you'll never get more rants from le Baron du Charlus

>but each has its peaks which could punch their weight with great literature

lol. If that is true, why are you so insecure about it? Go ahead and enjoy whatever the fuck you want, just don't compare it to literature.

Dom what the fuck

>literature is at least 3.500 year old
>games are 50 years at best
>huh duh let's cherrypick the best from each other
>huh duh literature is so much more amazing
wow.

also games are about interactivity, they're totally diferent.

game masterpieces are stuff like DOOM, Tetris, touhou, pacman, chess, shogi, go, Street fighter II, FIFA, ikaruga.

not your shitty rpg with mediocre stories that impress manchilds.

t. /v/

>game masterpieces are stuff like DOOM, Tetris, touhou, pacman, chess, shogi, go, Street fighter II, FIFA, ikaruga.

Jesus Christ I hate summer.

You're very stupid - I just want you to know that.

Games are older than literature. They used to be sacred affairs. Literature approaches, but does not achieve the passion that even children take for granted. You will never read a book that is as fulfilling or engrossing as even the simplest of childhood play. We read stories of conflict and competition, all according to a pattern established before history began. Yet both precedent and popular consensus prefer genuine sport to the fictive.

youtube.com/watch?v=xMEjovSlyqs
there's entire university thesis being made on pacman retard.

It's a masterpiece in the medium history.

I already mentioned soccer and chess as examples.

>only modern AAA garbage is good
t. summer

games=/=sports=/=video games

Eat a cock

Chess these days is shit. I'm not talking about chess. I'm talking about real chess. The chess where you hardly know the rules and all sorts of gambits come into play, not this positional boring game for computers. Same with soccer. Who wants to watch a bunch of Swedes pass the ball back and forth? I'm talking about real soccer. The soccer where you kick the ball as hard as you can toward the kid you don't like. The soccer where everyone just dives and dogpiles and fights over the ball. The primal game of ball, played since time immemorial.

game = a systems that consist of rules with a win and lose state.

sports = games that are done competitivelly.

video games = games that are done on a digital medium.

what now?

you mean play?

we do play because is enjoyable.
is enjoyable because is how kids and animals learn skills to survive in the wild.

>muh primal experiences
>surpassing literature
c'mon son.

I believe that video games can be a legitimate artform. We're definitely not there yet though. The main problems are:

1) A large portion of the gaming community doesn't want video games to be art and if they do, it's usually for the sake of signaling erudition in their hobbies more than anything else. The mass audience largely uses video games for leisure/common pleasure. This is to an extent true for all mediums distributed to the mass but video games are different in that its origins and history don't really explore video games from an artistic standpoint, but rather, a technological one. Literature, movies, music, and other mediums develop both of these in their history.

2) When developers are interested in more artistic explorations of video games, they still often take in account questions of gameplay and how "fun" it is, making whatever thing they wanted to express confused b/c of this awkward juxtaposition. It would be like if in Notes from the Underground, there's this random love triangle between, or in Madame Bovary, there's this Deus Ex Machina preventing her from killing herself and everything is hunky-dory. Both of these would be in direct opposition of the themes of the novels, or at best be superfluous. I find the gameplay and theme often in art games to be in direct contradiction with one another. The gamer community also doesn't help in focusing on the gameplay

3) I also feel that video games too often try and emulate the merits of other mediums and/or try to associate with intellectual topics in an attempt to gain status. I believe this to be misguided as the things idiosyncratic to video games are sufficient enough for the creation of new possibilities for art. I'm not saying that creators shouldn't borrow from other forms of entertainment but you should do it for the sake of creating something novel within the medium (See Tarkovsky and his transformation of alright sci-fi novels to great movies).

This being said, I think video games can reveal itself as an art and I think it's a pseud move to dismiss them as inherently vacuous. The medium definitely has long ways to go but it's not hopeless.

You are conflating medium. You forget the physicality of sports and somehow completely ignore the first half of "VIDEO game" and cherry pick words to assert yourself.

By your retard logic a book and the internet are the same.

he refers to the primal need for kids to play, you know animals as well play.

most adults also play, but they call it sports.

chess, shogi, go, xianqui are staples of high culture that survived for centuries.

not need to be angry.

I do think games should become their own thing and not copy movies.

youtube.com/watch?v=Vj-8C2misj0
have you played passage?

It's one example of games that try to convey meaning through gameplay.

some people claim it makes them cry, which is good I guess.

they don't surpass literature.

you're comparing diferent stuff.

if you mean telling a story?

No, literature is well, that's the entire point of literature.

have you played Dwarve fortress?
that's the kind of storytelling games can do that literature is unable to do.

i'm the one who freaking mentioned dwarf fortress earlier in the thread.
the primal experience of play does not come close to literature as a medium. the original idea of the thread, that games and anime and tv are just as able as great works of literature, is ludicrous.
whether or not it's demonstrably false, i couldn't say, what with the concept of personal preference, but as an art form, literature is an ultimately superior medium. chess i would argue is an experience of tension, excitement, loss, and triumph. i would say it's a fantastic experience, especially amateur levels, but is it on par with literature as an art medium? never. chess isn't art. it's a game, the way someone plays can be artistic in a sense, but otherwise, not at all.

You calling me summer after assuming the (wrong) reason for me calling you dumb. Nice one my man.

oh, and dwarf fortress, though fun, is still a chaotic playtoy that gives one at times hilarious results from the complexity of the simulation, but it never loses the jagged tinge of false reality, literature has many times smoothed that jagged line.

games are not art.
games are games.

most retard who thinks of games as art thinks of shitty hollywood rippoffs.

of course the average gamer is uneducated as fuck and only wants entertainment like a porn user.

But I'm talking in terms of aesthetical experience.

Games like the first silent hill or resident evil 2 are great examples of horror.

I assume you're not well read on videogames, I am not as well read on literature as the average lit.

youtube.com/watch?v=JzS96auqau0
Check this, this kind of moment is where videogames excell and other art mediums are unable to compete.

Games are an interactive medium, therefore, they should be compared to interactive mediums, like street storytelling, street threater, improvisations, street comedians and sports (which are some kind of kinectic art like dancing).

They can as well do methaphor, but most game developers goes for the hollywood movie ripoff, but they can be as profound as literature, but in a diferent sense.

look how monopoly is a complete representation of american society.

>Vampire
Unfinished
>System Shock 2
Rushed, shitty RPG stuff, spooky robot plot is well acted but barely middling by /sffg/ standards.
>Deus Ex
Most overrated game of all time. It's a shittier Thief combined with a shittier Unreal but I'm supposed to forgive that because of the plot which is just a shopping list of conspiracy theories that branches but always makes you do the same thing so who cares?
>Dark Souls
A Dungeon Crawler that doesn't punish me for not making my own maps on physical paper can't not be shit. Otogi played better and King's Field was spoopier.
>Planet Escape: Torrent
If you unironically believe that this is a good game refer to .
>Spec Ops
Pure homosexuality.
>The Witcher 3
Gothic but with stupid prancy combat and a glowing line to follow around so that you don't have to think.
>Silent Hill 2
Pretentious Resident Evil.

If you're going to shill this stupid shit at least do it right. Here's the real deal:
>Nier
>Metal Gear Solid 2
>Quake
>Mount & Blade: Warband
>Spiderman 2
>UFO: Enemy Unknown

>Check this, this kind of moment is where videogames excell and other art mediums are unable to compete.

>Skill and recognition of said skill are moments where art mediums are unable to compete
HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I didn't mean to go on that long, but honestly your stupidity floored me.

This post means nothing unless you define 'art'.

is an unexpected moment nobody has seen before.

is more like a historical sport moment.

Well I'm the guy that brought up the primal experience of play, and I'm telling you nothing comes close to that, not literature, not procedurally generated world building, not organized sports or even alternative sports. The child is both author and participant. A hero. A world builder. All in one. Every single advance in gaming today has only been a paltry attempt to come closer to this one ideal. Open world game? The world was always open. Make your own adventure? Kids in Africa are doing that even ask we speak.

What we call literature does not live or breathe or exist in the imagination, but on stale paper, it is devoid, as Socrates would say, of substance. The act of reading is to be lead by hand, as the blind. The imaginative part of the brain kids exercise is the same part used to create religions. When the child declares "I am the king of the castle, the lord of all things" he is reprising a microcosm of civilization itself, the stories of childhood are the same as the stories of prehistoric man, the seed of all modern culture. For the defenders of literature to denounce play is no better than to stand before one's creator and slap Him upside the face.

Maybe to the people who saw it live. Honestly I don't find that video to be anywhere near as impressive as Michelangelo's David or any Shakespearean work which were also unexpected and unprecedented.

I agree that video games excel in putting a player in control of what occurs, but that doesn't mean a well played game = art. Nobody ever called a singular game of a sport art.

>UFO ENEMY UNKNOWN
I agree with this one but I'd say these are better than your other suggestions.
Aurora 4x
Dwarf Fortress
Poschengband
SpaceChem
SS13

>i assume you're not well read on videogames
i'm fairly sure i've played and enjoyed and researched more games than you have, people can have many passions, my friend.
as to your video, if you believe that experience is anything more than excitement shared between people, and can compare in any way with the depth of philosophy, the construction of narratives, the utter mastery of prose, then you're just wrong. sure primal urges can have depth, but they have no nuance once they attain that depth, there's no control over it, only an undulation of fury, joy, sorrow, etc. whereas once you have traversed into these realms with literature, you can see how these depths can be navigated, can be maintained, can be surpassed.
if you're not interacting with your literature, you're missing out. if you think the aesthetics of a video game are on par with the magnificent prose of masters, you have a mental deficiency.
you simplify american society to a board game that only has three or four dimensions, when there are generations upon generations of societal clashes, shifts, climaxes, and degredations contained within the pages of a single book.
you severely underestimate literature if you think it can't and hasn't already overwhelmed anything a videogame has to offer.

>implying that one's creator cannot be surpassed
look, i get it. you liked playing as a kid. it's just not as defined and perfected and mature as literature. if mere play could have sufficed our primitive brains, we would never have crafted language, never pushed the boundaries of human knowledge in physics, never have turned lead into gold. if simple play were enough, you wouldn't sit here typing to me. but it's not enough, and itnever will be, because primal play is just that, play. the play of a child, someone acting and learning, not yet able to comprehend what full maturity will bequeath.
i say you are stuck in childhood in some way, yearning for the freshness of youth. i can't blame you, but i personally prefer wine to your grapes.

poschengband is the tits. nice to see someone who likes the real roguelikes. I'm more of an ADOM OmegaRL man myself.

I define art as any activity that is the combination of an idea (human creativity) that uses a skill (developed through years of practices as it implies mastery) and serves a purpose, be it intelectual or emotional experience.

Therefore in my definition, there are some arts that I call kinectic arts, like sports, dancing, martial arts, gymnastics, calisthenics.

youtube.com/watch?v=-JUyHL3v1QQ
There's not reason why dancing is an art and jogo bonito is not, if both employ the movement of the body as a way to express our inner creativity.

Well, you're still not have defined under what criteria are u using?

>Visual arts?
youtube.com/watch?v=ly7Rd4OOB8I

Every working artists in the industry is a top tier artist as capable as renaissance painters.

An AAA game like GTA requires so much artistic work as basically an european cathedral.

youtube.com/watch?v=SFmArNoAVfw

>Music
I'm not well read on music, since I'm not a musician, but videogame music is already considered as equally important as film music.
There's plenty of concertos done by world wide orchestras
youtube.com/watch?v=lffvkiRDtIg

The only realm that literature can compete with games is the storytelling aspect, but I would agree is one of the more weak aspects of videogames.

But just recently in the last generations games have been able to start hiring hollywood writers in some AAA games.

youtube.com/watch?v=8fXE-E1hjKk

there's some interesting talks about storytelling in the industry.

Clearly games storytelling is an entire new experience and game developers are still trying to figure out ways to make game stories be good.

But I'm sure Uncharted is a way for games to emulate movies, and the last of us is clearly not crap I think.

There's also the indies, who are making new stuff, I remember undertale being kind of new for me in terms of storytelling.

i'm not going to dignify this tone deaf response to my post with anything serious.
you. need. to. read. more.
atop mount lit i can't even see you.
even when i played games all day and night, i was still less of a moronic and blind hamster.
perhaps you are incapable, just as a man without a tongue can't taste souffle, and spits at it as though it were oatmeal.
stop trying to lower literature to the baseness of vidya. just stop.

>games are not art.
>games are games.
Wrong.

> if mere play could have sufficed our primitive brains, we would never have crafted language, never pushed the boundaries of human knowledge in physics, never have turned lead into gold.

Now here's where you are wrong. Play causes us to define new terminology, hence play creates language. A child at play has intuitive understanding of all of Newtonian physics.

>never have turned lead into gold.

That's impossible to do, but the only reason gold is valued is because it's shiny and people want to compete for it, which is a form of play.

>someone acting and learning, not yet able to comprehend what full maturity will bequeath.

If you think that anyone, even the literate, has full comprehension or understanding, I will with full irony suggest you read Ecclesiastes.

The best literature can do is attempt to describe what already happens in reality. The beauty of reality is that we are already living it. In the circle of comprehension the end is much like the beginning. Try to remember these words in your diaper wearing old age as you play bingo, and find that in spite of decrepitude, the dementia has brought a return to long lost joy.

I wanted to reply to your post in a thoughtful manner, but then halfway through typing I ran out of characters and realized it was futile.

Let me shorten it: video games require a lot of time, effort, money, creativity, ideas, and planning to get made. That does NOT automatically make them art. For example, the average Hollywood comic book movie takes the same amount of effort to create but they are also not art. They are a product, a commercial to sell the number 2 or promote other products, extensions, tie in's, etc. Judging a work by how popular it is is not a representation of it's artistic merit.

>Every working artists in the industry is a top tier artist as capable as renaissance painters.
This is a wild misrepresentation. Imagine judging cave paintings against DeviantArt fanart. They are entirely different and hold a FUNDAMENTALLY different value to humanity.

You are a lost mind of a consumer who has been duped into thinking there is real value in the dollar figure. You can't even properly define art without using ambiguous terms like "serves a purpose". True art serves NO purpose it simply makes people strive for greatness subconsciously.

>The best literature can do is attempt to describe what already happens in reality.
You're confusing the finger with the moon.

they're diferent mediums that serve diferent purposes retard.

if you mean that games lack the deepness in terms of metaphor, I'm not sure it depends on the artist themselves.

99% of literature is garbage.

I read notes from underground (dostoyesky) and it was a shitty story about some XIX century neet loser and how he has USI and his empty victory agains some Chad he never met.

Totally garbage and people regard that trash as the best of russian literature.

I read Romeo and Juliet and is a nice and simple story about a tragic love, with excellent wordplay.

But people seem to dicksuck it because of muh nice prose and epic bible references.

I've read some tales from Julio Cortazar and were trash about some guy vomiting bunnies and some twin couple about some voices they hear in the house that scare them.

And they're regarded as literature masterpieces.

And poethry is mostly trying to imitate painting with words, is pretty pictures but nothing deep.

>but muh bible, muh Dante.
and I've been unimpressed by them, cool wordplays, cool cultural reference to ancient romen and greece, nice stories, but nothing to suck my dick about.

And yes, literature includes erotica, romance, harlequin novels and self published amazon crap.

So what?
Are they not literature?

scientificamerican.com/article/fact-or-fiction-lead-can-be-turned-into-gold/
first off, check that out, you've been left behind, grandpa.
second, if you're trying to turn play into some sort of universal aspect of humanity that cannot be surpassed by anything, then go off and complete a philosophical treatise on that. it's frankly ridiculous, and shows that you're not serious. play is fundamental to a lot of human life, but to pretend that it can't be surpassed, to pretend that it's the end all be all of man, is shortselling the fuck out of man. now, be my guest, use sophistry as you wish, convince everyone in the world that play is the soul of man.
whatever. you're just playing a game. that's what you want to do, and that's fine. but i refuse to play it with you. i want something more. something better than play. and there's plenty out there.

this was meant for you.

youtube.com/watch?v=rWEt7DdUTaU

not all games are done to make money retard.
look up indie games and art games.

Video games mirroring movies is not art nor artistic. It is actually more limiting to the medium. Imagine if photography was limited to only recording 2D works.

The truth is that video games are (for the most part) NOT art because they have yet to do anything better than any other medium. In case you never knew, choose your own adventure books already exist and do things that several AAA games copy, only they did it first and better.

Graphics, music, scripts, reflex training, everything has already been done better in other mediums; why is it that Video Games deserve the praise instead?

i say again. you can't taste without a tongue. i would feel pity, but i was told to beware.

>all games are comercial AAA trash

youtube.com/watch?v=KkJ8C1MEKLs
youtube.com/watch?v=yuOObGjCA7Q

>has never read a book on game design

I've read literature and I'm unimpress.

unless you mean philosophy, but philosophy isn't necesarelly literature per se.

like I said, nobody stops a game developer making a game about philosophy topics.

It's like complaining painting can't do deep philosophical ideas.

Again, argueing about entire mediums diferent goals.

>t. i've read five books, all literature is trash
Romeo and Juliet is a play, you dipshit.

Ah yes the quintessential "art" game. So "Artistic" they have to market themselves as that or else people would not play them at all since they are so boring.

Being "meta" or having a slightly ironic twist does not make games art. A shoestring budget does not make art. Copying other much better works does not make art.

Sorry I hurt your feelings so badly, but I never even said that. You must be a very insecure person too heavily invested in video games to not understand what I am saying.

I've read Don Quixote, and 100 years of solitude and those are the best in my native language.

Am not allowed to speak about my native language capabilities?

painting literally deals with philosophical ideals constantly. Jesus fucking hopscotch dogshitting Christ.

>“It would cost more than one quadrillion dollars per ounce to produce gold by this experiment,"

>never have turned lead into gold.

>That's impossible to do

youtube.com/watch?v=h6tFoIUyOdU

super mario 64 is another masterpiece.
Is not good enough because is like a disney cartoon and is for kids?

Metal gear deals with philosophical ideas as well.

You're comparing diferent shit retard.
Games are about interactivity.

Look up chess if you want a game that is a cultural enterprise comparable to the best of literature.

sorry i have autism and its hard for me to admit when i am wrong

>playing games for the plot

games, especially now with the rise VR, are experiences not narratives

>Mario is a masterpiece
>why is that?
>because

Whoa man I guess you stumped me :^)

>disney is not art
wew lads.

You've already lost. Go back to /v/

>his is a wild misrepresentation. Imagine judging cave paintings against DeviantArt fanart. They are entirely different and hold a FUNDAMENTALLY different value to humanity.

Yet here you are, a caveman judging cave paintings.

So you've given up?

>ook up chess if you want a game that is a cultural enterprise comparable to the best of literature.

this brings up a good point, games by their very definition are competitive, you're always playing against someone whether it's a human or AI. it's like saying can soccer ever be literature? do u think anyone on a soccer forum is stupid enough to suggest such a thing? but here we have to get the occasional /v/ pleb wandering in asking nonsense

I guess beethoven nine symphony is not art because is simply intrumental music and don't dabble in philosophy.

and yet games are at least more art than whatever garbage is being sold in the fine arts industry scam or whatever garbage comes from the academia in music today.

so do i. play is integral to life, and in some ways you are right. i think it must be balanced though, there is a time for play and a time for seriousness, not to simplify life. i get your position. i do. i just think it's dangerous to try to make foundational statements of life. it detracts from the genuine complexity of it all.
whatever man. Pacman is greater than a freak Joyce Shakespeare monster's book. happy? fuck you're retarded.

>and yet games are at least more art than whatever garbage is being sold in the fine arts industry scam or whatever garbage comes from the academia in music today.

HAHA OH WOW, I think your brain broke. Just stick to /v/ kid, hope you have a kick ass summer!

games are about gameplay mechanics.

you can use those gameplay mechanics to mean whatever you want.

you're comparing diferent shit retard.

you're literally saying that a song is the same as a drawing and somehow one is more deep than the other.

>4"3 and jhon cage is more art than final fantasy XV

CTRL+F Metro

Metro series

youtube.com/watch?v=uaG_eP_dP6I

Metro is nothing but a worse STALKER ripoff. You've only worsened the stance on video games when all they do is cannibalize each other while giving themselves credit.

youtube.com/watch?v=mU3nNT4rcFg

>lit retards think only AAA trash is being made in the medium

nope. literature, painting, sculpture, music, all are greater than vidya. so much so that each of these things acting in concert are required to make vidya. vidya is not its own platform of art, but rather a derivative of the core arts, a freak commercial child, a creation that is less than the sum of its parts.

CTRL+F Morrowind
ok...
youtube.com/watch?v=s8EIDkMWoUs

Wow you've finally shown an actually artistic game to prove your argument. I'm impressed. I honestly thought you were going to point at the Twitch stream whores for money as a nod to the "starving artist" trope.

That being said, you didn't show that Metro is better than the work it apes.

I'm going to sleep.
Read this book.

simply google art games.

art games didn't turn up anything.

"art" games did however.

sweet dreams.
pleb.

try looking at the game by itself
every book is based on another too

i almost wish he had argued with this, i played the devil's advocate and said
>but muh opera
to which i replied that a combination of two core arts can be closer to its core parts, but still lack the depth that mastery focused on a single art can convey. the focus in vidya is spread thinly across several different arts acting in unison. there are inevitably clashes in the masters taking part, as their expressions are used to convey a theme, say. one artist may have a vision of the theme that reconciles with ultimate depth, but when combined with another artist's vision, there is a clash. let alone the two arts embodied in one artist, the inner turmoil interferes with the theme's conveyance.

>IT'S OK TO RIPOFF WORKS AND CLAIM SUPERIORITY BECAUSE EVERYTHING IS ALREADY A RIPOFF RIGHT???

You really think someone who plays video games would understand that?

These are kids who have never truly appreciated art. They can't recognize the depth of the human soul, they have to be told it in a cutscene before they shoot the heads off of several zombies.