/ag/ - Autodidact General - Foundations Edition

Greetings Veeky Forumserati, grab a book, paper, and pen, and let's get a /comfy/ thread going while we talk about something to better us all.

It has come to my attention that a certain "meme list" has been circulating around. These threads include, but are not limited to:
It turns out that these lists originate from a few key threads, which have their own batch of interesting arguments, perspectives, and recommendations:
>On "Autodidact General": warosu.org/lit/thread/9374881
>On "How to Think": warosu.org/lit/thread/9475678
>On Trivium: warosu.org/lit/thread/9570794
It is nice to see that people are trying to better themselves, and this has been a more organized approach than I've ever seen on this website.
These lists, however, are beset by a lot of practical problems that keep them from being anything other than meme lists.

Friends, it's awesome that we're trying to develop some sort of "autodidact" core to serve as a substitute for the liberal arts education we deserve but never received. Unfortunately, with all of these scattered developments, inaccessible books, and haphazard reading orders, you're only going to attract derision from all but the most dedicated people. Also, without the proper mindset, lifestyle, and discipline, all of your autodidact ventures will be doomed to amateurism and failure. You can successfully teach yourself to achieve better expertise than many dispassionate experts, but ONLY with common sense, hard work, self-awareness, and skepticism.

We need to establish some basic standards, which many include a core curriculum for intellectual independence, some resources for independent study after independence, accessible recommendations (at least libgen friendly), and some other lifestyle and practical advice to support those who wish to dedicate enormous resources to this venture. A community needs to be built around this purpose, compiling resources on a Google Doc, starting a Discord channel for discussion, etc.

In a moment, I'll begin with an example of a meme list for those who don't want to read the aforementioned threads in their entirety, followed by my own critiques and suggestions. I see great opportunity for a small movement on Veeky Forums, putting our cynicism, skepticism, and our last vestiges of hope to good use. What say you all?

>pic related: the flags of baltic nations

Other urls found in this thread:

i.warosu.org/lit/thread/9614604#p9615391
docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/pub
drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9QDHej9UGAdcDhWVEllMzJBSEk
drive.google.com/file/d/0B6475ZpbH_cGSWxsZjdtY05ySGM/view
warosu.org/lit/thread/9368880
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

>pic related is one example meme list
Here's another similar list: i.warosu.org/lit/thread/9614604#p9615391

It seems like we need some fresh blood.

If you are over 22-25, your train has passed.

Sorry.

Plenty of us are on the younger side. I'm well into my autodidact journey at 20 years old. The brain remains plastic throughout adulthood too—you're still fully capable of growing and learning if you apply yourself.

Burger-whos-in-vacation-in-yuropoor user is that you?
Stop with this shitty meme, holy fuck

>Creative & Critical Thinking - W. Edgar Moore
That's a meme book if I've ever heard one. Whoever recommended that book should be shot for not uploading it, because it's too rare to find on libgen or even in most libraries. It DOES seem like a good book with these topics:

Decision making -- The hypothetical syllogism -- Reliability and probability -- Evaluating evidence -- Forming hypotheses -- Testing hypotheses -- Generalizations -- Statistical concepts -- Statistics and probability -- Reasoning from generalizations -- Forming causal theories -- Testing causal theories -- Evaluation and decision -- Value judgments -- Creative thinking -- Fallacies of irrelevance -- Neglected aspect -- Pitfalls in language -- Classification and definition -- Categorical propositions -- Immediate inference -- Categorical syllogisms -- Alternative and disjunctive syllogisms -- Interpreting propositions -- Involved arguments -- Complex syllogistic forms -- Need-directed thinking -- The personal point of view -- How we distort the evidence -- Emotions and thinking -- Hidden propositions -- Psychological pitfalls -- False assumptions -- Devices of persuasion -- Refining value systems.

It's a shame that an old-fashioned, hardcore textbook on critical thinking has been superseded by mass-produced textbook mill crap designed to dull the mind and not sharpen it. It's a shame, too, because we could do more to promote critical thinking skills besides throwing good books and problems at people and hoping by luck of the draw, whether it be genetics, experience, or mood, that they figure it out and learn to think for themselves.

It's me. Currently skimming through some "critical thinking" book replacements. There's a lot of stupid bullshit out there, and there's even fewer "mediocre-decent" range books that are either too much of a niche or not comprehensive enough. But I guess the perfect is the enemy of the good, isn't it?

Don't worry, I'll be back with hopefully a contribution that could answer .

Glad to hear from you again.
Keep it up, I'm cheering on ya'

Currently bogged down due to the Critical Thinking - William Hughes not converting properly from .chm to .pdf. The standard Mac program for this, ichm, keeps getting stuck at "Label". Any advice?

Update, decompiled chm to a bunch of html files, will seek to convert to pdf. Let me know if there's a good place where I can upload the finish product. Also, is it possible to upload it to the libgen library so other people don't have to go through this hassle?

I don't know if this is the type of thing you're looking for, but a while ago I found an ebook collection of the Harvard Classics.
It was said at one point that one could obtain a liberal education by reading 15 minutes a day from this collection. It's probably missing some important stuff now, but still has a good selection.

Here's the ebooks: wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/Harvard_Classics_Available_at_MobileRead

Great stuff. I don't know if they should be an autodidact "core" curriculum, but they should definitely be a recommended path once somebody is comfortable tackling things on their own time.

Speaking of autodidact curriculums, what are some necessary skills that autodidacts should have, both in learning and in general? Are we all shooting to become some sort of Renaissance Man?

just copy the Aeneid and Metamorphosis and Kikeroo over and over idiot

Understanding statistics is essential for pretty much everything outside of art.

Do you mean understanding an introductory statistics and inference class content? Or just maybe the basic "reasoning about statistics" you might find in a critical thinking book? I have one that I'm about to review and post as soon as I can get the formatting done.

You're probably right that the Harvard Classics aren't necessarily core. I've just been sitting on the link for a while and figured this is the most relevant place to share it.

As for other skills, maybe I'm alone in this, but I feel it's important for people to know more mundane skills like carpentry and plumbing. At least enough to do minor repairs. I don't know what resources would be best for this, but I feel knowing how things work is important to being a Renaissance Man.

plasticity only goes down my man
if you weren't amazing at 12 you're not going to be so hot at 32

The first. All modern science, both natural and social lean heavily on statistics.

>As for other skills, maybe I'm alone in this, but I feel it's important for people to know more mundane skills like carpentry and plumbing.

You are totally not alone in this. Some of the old threads on autodidactism have recommended picking up hobbies, including practical skills. I know that I want to learn these skills once I leave university, and lord knows how much my heart will melt if I can teach those skills to my kids, who will pass the knowledge onto their kids, etc.

Some practical skills, like drawing, can be taught at a beginning level through reading a good book and self-practice, such as Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain - Betty Edwards. Others will probably need less formal resources, like YouTube links, in-person courses, and maybe only supplemental theoretical materials (an intro book on physics + a book on circuits for electricians could help but you for sure should learn from an expert). Maybe it's more important about developing method, providing what resources we have, but encouraging others to find their own path.

-- --

Also, I've abandoned William Hughes. Can't get the chm book formatted in something that isn't totally cancerous. Will be looking at Rulebook for Arguments by Weston, The Art of Reasoning by Kelley, and Critical Thinking by Irving Copi.

I was amazing at 12. Still am amazing. Read enough history, math, and science to breeze my way through high school into a full-ride at a HYPSM caliber school while fucking around. I'm just don't have the stomach for mediocrity like that I used to, so I started teaching myself what public schools couldn't provide. Why don't we think positive and make the best out of what we have?

Hmmm... we should definitely incorporate a good introductory textbook then for a sciences primer. I don't want a core list to be more than 10 books. You don't need statistics for everything, and you can teach the "type" (for the lack of better word) of reasoning in other books. I will definitely include a good statistics book in a compendium for sciences though, since you need the formalized version to understand how to setup experiments and read scientific papers.

Bump

I've been thinking of writing some notes & problems on basic (GCSE - A level) maths, partly for fun and partly to learn LaTeX, and this would be a great motivator. Would anyone be interested?
Qualifications: I'm going into my 3rd year of Physics this October.

Have you seen either Pre-calculus by Stitz & Zeager/Pre-calculus by Sheldon Axler + Calculus: A Modern Approach by Jeff Knisley? Free books of decent quality compared to modern textbooks at universities. You should check them out as a standard IMO.

I'll check them out. It's probably a good idea to work toa standard, but most of the fun of this is thinking about basic concepts in new ways, so I might not draw too much from them.

lmao says 'friends' in OP, uses 9gag image & thread has only one poster

There's 10 posters in this thread.

Honestly, I'm about to either scour local libraries here for the book or purchase Creative & Critical Thinking by W. Edgar Moore. Might even find a way to scan it if I can do so properly. The only books I can find that occupy a similar niche are The Art of Reasoning by David Kelley and An Introduction to Logic by Copi, though to be honest they would end up overlapping hard with The Trivium: Logic, Grammar, & Rhetoric, plus they would also go very far into formal logics that isn't much of a "core" subject. A Rulebook for Arguments is the opposite problem: it is the appropriate depth, but it isn't broad enough.

Is it really that good? I can't find it here in France..

Move on, find something else.

It's pretty good. Better than most critical thinking books that can't seem to decide their scope, seriousness, or depth. Have you checked the university libraries?

Already did. My backup is The Art of Reasoning by David Kelley. I'll probably be writing up a post shortly.

the lateral thinking book by edward de bono has some dank mems

Didn't have a good experience reading Edward de Bono. How to Have a Beautiful Mind is probably as systematic and to-the-point as he gets, but I wouldn't really recommend even that book.

Anyway. It's settled boys. I'm making a trip to the library tomorrow. I'll return with the book Creative & Critical Thinking, some pictures to share, and a write-up. Maybe one day I'll even get it PDF scanned.

>PDF scanned
i'm telling the librarian on you

The real thought crime is trying to get people to think.

Bumping for interest

docs.google.com/document/d/1y8_RRaZW5X3xwztjZ4p0XeRplqebYwpmuNNpaN_TkgM/pub

8ch net/pdfs/res/48.html

drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B9QDHej9UGAdcDhWVEllMzJBSEk

drive.google.com/file/d/0B6475ZpbH_cGSWxsZjdtY05ySGM/view

Bump

Excellent links, especially on aesthetics. Thank you for your contribution.

I spent a lot of my time during my first semester of law school re-learning how to learn. Will post about it later if these general threads keep up.

I like the idea of mental growth threads here on Veeky Forums. Nice to see others wanting others to become better.

>to serve as a substitute for the liberal arts education we deserve, but never received

This struck me to the core. Since discovering lit, starting with the Greeks, reading the lit starter kit, and attempting Nietzsche, i've come to resent my country's destruction of the humanistics. Learning from Nietzsche, more accurately from what others on this board say about Nietzsche, regarding Protestantism's transformation to today's socialism in pic related countries, with core tennants such as; destroying religion, language, culture, tradition, history and art; I've come to sorely miss the humanistics, especially the study of Latin. 2000 years of knowledge, in a language that isn't mandatory teaching.
Fuck me.

Today, I, again as usual, learned somehting i'd never learn from any school available in my country, except for our Catholic institue - privately held, and that is the Trivium and Quadrivium. Before this all I had was Aristotle's Rhetoric, and now I have so much more.

Thank you, for giving me all of this.
For free.

>9fag watermark

...

>hating 9fag is exclusive to /b
Crawl back under the rock you came from.

I didn't even notice it at first. Find me a picture without a watermark and I'll never use the 9fag version again.

...

Thanks! Surprise that the 9fag watermark was 18 kb in size.

>HYPMS caliber school
>public school
Berkeley is not HYPMS caliber as much as califags wanna believe.

I meant HYPSM as in one of those 3. Hint: it's not Yale.

Another bump in the form of expressing happiness due to vacation (soon).

I've stored up a couple of books that I'm going to enjoy immensely and deepen my knowledge with. And earlier this morning I bought a Paperwhite which will arrive on Friday/Saturday. Hopefully there will be more of these threads in the future (you should always strive to better yourself and the community you're part of) with a firmer foundation and more sources of knowledge. Those of you that have contributed and continue to contribute deserve a clap on the shoulder and great respect. Thank you.

Hey what do you know, we go to the same school. Harvard isn't a public school my friend who goes to the same school as me.

What do you want me to do, dox myself? That was my key to my freshman dorm, and Lamont Library is only accessible to students, faculty, etc.

No need to get defensive, we should hang out sometime

I hope to see you around so we can talk about autodidact literature.

Yeah sure I usually wear oxfords and chinos and derbies. If you see anyone who fits that description go up to him and say heil didactic automaton and I'll know it's you.

Now that's just malicious advice.

Nono I wear really thick chinos even during the summer, I'm sure you'll know it's me. And I don't ever wear khakis so khakis =/= me

What books user?

Sounds like my story. What books are reading?

Enquiry Concerning Human Understanding by David Hume
Thinking, fast and slow by Daniel Kahneman
A little bit of Elements by Euclid (gonna practice and try to understand as much as possible), then onto Archimedes and his works.
Also I'm quite excited to read about Lao Tzu, and more eastern philosophy

Good stuff. Enquiry made me "get" philosophy, as in the purpose of it, how to do it, and the stakes of it. With Euclid, I recommend that you use a modern companion book like Geometry: Euclid and Beyond by Hartshorne and maybe even a proofing book such as How to Prove It by Velleman to get the most out of your experience.

Thanks for the tips, user.
I'll make sure to check it out when the time comes

Any other books you recommend or books that you've read before?

Resurrecting this thread, I would like to ask people a few questions:

1) What are the "necessary" skills before becoming an autodidact?

2) What should be the "essentials" of a starting autodidact curriculum?

3) What are some interesting pathways that an autodidact could take once they've reached an intermediate level?

4) What would you recommend that is overlooked, unorthodox, or otherwise unfairly ignored by autodidacts?

Pic unrelated, a nice diagram of the trinity, so at least you've walked away unlearning heresy.

Also this is not Sean Goonan. I was trolling earlier.

Kierkegaard

Why do you recommend Kierkegaard? I think he's a great read for anybody interested in philosophy or religion, but I wouldn't say that it's a great read for a beginning autodidact.

Abandon academia. Become an autodidact.

That pepe makes me irrationally angry. I don’t know if it’s just how smug it looks, but I get the impression that he thinks he’s better than me, and his overall attitude manifests in his boneheaded mantra. It made me angry a few months ago when I first saw it, and it still sends me for a spin.

What do the resident /autodidacts/ think about journaling?

Make a discord

For what purpose? Discord only promotes circlejerking and attention-whoring.
It's better to discuss here on Veeky Forums where everyone are anonymous/equal by default.

I plan on making a discord after a few successful threads if there's enough enthusiasm. I want to get a coherent system and direction setup first.

Bump and good luck to you all; I've been looking for a shorter book on critical thinking but haven't had much luck. Most are gimmicky as fuck.

I agree. Thankfully, I have a gracious friend who will be checking out a university library to borrow C&CT tomorrow. I will post pictures of the table of contents and requested sample pages so we can see if it's worth buying. Otherwise, we might as well stick with The Art of Reasoning by David Kelley, A Rulebook for Arguments by Anthony Weston, or An Introduction to Logic by Copi to fill the niche.

Imagine if this thread dies before your friend pulls through.

Bumping to keep this alive

Hope you guys find some interest in these images

Been following pic related for Schopenhauer, honestly far more interesting than continuing with the Romans, which is what I would be doing now.

Lies. Sadler, the professor on YouTube, started at around that age with philosophy.

That's a good point to mention. There are multiple approaches besides the old structural one that we tend to recommend.

Here's an alternative list that avoids Stewart, making it a cheaper option. Doesn't have to be done in order. For example, if you want to do real analysis, you could probably just do Knisley > Velleman > Apostol (optional) > Tao. But if you want to be systematic, I think this is the way to do it by mirroring a typical math curriculum.

>0. Khan Academy
This is not where you start. This is where you go if you're stuck. Where you go if you're struggling due to poor high school education, a lack of concentration skills, mathematical immaturity, or lapse of grit. Should be considered training wheels and fully abandoned somewhere within category 1, maybe category 2.

>1. Foundations of University Mathematics
Pre-Calculus - Carl Stitz & Jeff Zeager
Calculus: A Modern Approach - Jeff Knisley & Kevin Shirley
The Art and Craft of Problem Solving - Paul Zeitz

>2. Introduction to University Mathematics
Linear Algebra and Its Applications - David C. Lay
Calculus of Several Variables - Serge Lang
Differential Equations - Shepley Ross

>3. Introduction to Proofing and Survey of Higher-level Mathematics
How to Think Like a Mathematician - Kevin Houston
How to Prove It - D. J. Velleman
Mathematics: Its Content, Methods and Meaning - A.D. Aleksandrov, A.N. Kolmogorov, & M.A. Lavrent'ev

>4. Bringing It All Together: The First Test of Pure Mathematics
Calculus Vol. I & II - T. M. Apostol
Principles of Topology - Fred H. Croom
Analysis I & II - Terence Tao

>5. Further Reading in Pure Mathematics: Introductions
Linear Algebra - K. M. Hoffman & Ray Kunze
A Book of Abstract Algebra - C. C. Pinter
An Introduction to Formal Logic - Peter Smith
Concrete Mathematics - R. L. Graham, D. E. Knuth, & Oren Patashnik
Introduction to Graph Theory - R. J. Trudeau
Introduction to Probability - D. P. Bertsekas & J. N. Tsitsiklis
Applied Partial Differential Equations - J. D. Logan
Nonlinear Dynamics and Chaos - S. H. Strogatz
Foundations of Applied Mathematics - M. D. Greenberg
The Princeton Companion to Mathematics - Timothy Gowers

dude what the fuck is this retarded thread

Cultural exchange with the Baltics

>population statistics
Those are some fightin' words, troll.

anyone here know anything about pic related? it's meant to be for homeschooling kids through the trivium, could I use it too or is it too easy?

I would imagine that you would be able to find good sources for things in case you're struggling for a more advanced topic. It's really more of a long, multi-stage curriculum with advice, primers, and resources. You can download the book on libgen if you want to see if it will be useful for you.

Wait are you referring to the book aimed at homeschooling kids or the one aimed at adults. There's a difference between the former, Well-TRAINED Mind, and the latter, Well-EDUCATED Mind.

You can, sure, but it is aimed at parents/teachers for K-12. Look for "The Well-Educated Mind" also by Susan Wise Bauer instead, it's aimed at adults teaching themselves. Also rec Mortimer Adler's "How to Read a Book" to round it out.

same thing for physics my man?

I don't suppose anyone would know where to start with international relations / politics?

I only know that Halliday is probably the best place to start. What level are you at? You could probably get a lot of information by Googling "best physics textbooks site:yuki.la" or the same thing but with warosu.org. If you find some good stuff after comparing the two, post anything that's easily accessible.

Thought I would share this old link: warosu.org/lit/thread/9368880

I'VE GOT PICTURES OF CREATIVE & CRITICAL THINKING

WILL BE PICTURES SHORTLY

table of contents part 1

Upload it on dropbox instead of dumping it here

unfortunately my friend skipped two pages by accident, I can have those pictures uploaded tomorrow

continuing onto table of contents part 4

I'll upload the table of contents here and everything onto a dropbox once I get the missing 2 pages.

table of contents part 5

table of contents part 6