Can we say that, from a Buddhist and stoic point of view, corrupt politicians and extremely wealthy and greedy tycoons (who pressure and influence politicians to vote laws that are beneficial to their ambitions, often with social costs to the majority of population) are suffering?
Can we say that those people, although they make thousands of others suffer, are themselves filled with frustrations and painful feelings?
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we don't need a buddhist point of view, we don't even need an aristotlean view - this is logically necessary from any good perspective on life. it's their inner dread of existence and life which makes them cling onto the fruit of others' labor. they're parasites, and parasites aren't individual beings, they're slaves to their hosts - and thus, never truly human, alive or happy.
No. You don't know how they feel. Stop using Buddhism as an excuse to not strive.
Never taught about it this way. It makes me feel better to consider reality from such a view.
and this is why buddhism is even more resentful than christianity..."those rich guys with long and fulfilling careers building great businesses that create prosperity for their nation are all SUFFERING! haha, fuck them, those greedy parasites! they're not happy like ME!" yeah ok dude
It's not buddhism, it's just these dummies. They feel bad and need a way out of having to measure up. Part of buddhism is avoiding idle chatter...
>muh wealth creation
Just because rich guys are smiling in their Forbes photoshoots, doesn't mean they're actually fulfilled. The fact that you even know who they are is evidence of the vanity of their "striving."
>"A kind man who makes good use of wealth is rightly said to possess a great treasure; but the miser who hoards up his riches will have no profit."
>"The fool is his own enemy. Seeking wealth, he destroys himself. Seek rather the other shore."
>"Insignificant, is the increase of relatives, wealth and fame; The increase of wisdom is the highest gain."
- Gautama Buddha
the fact that you know who the buddha is is evidence of his vanity and striving
>and this is why buddhism is even more resentful than christianity..."those rich guys with long and fulfilling careers building great businesses that create prosperity for their nation
What do you think of people who use modern-day-slave-labor in their fields of grain? And those Apple factories that use slave-labor in China? Or the slave-labor in the clothe industry that exists in India, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Thailand, etc?
And when you think that the owners of such business buy the congressmen of those countries, trying to avoid the implementation of labor laws that could make people live better lives (but that would decrease the profits of the corporations): are these honorable people, are these people to be admired?
Wake up, dude. That those people suffer is debatable, but to see them as some sort of a class of heroes and great men is extremely naïve.
>Part of buddhism is avoiding idle chatter...
The historical Buddha lived among princes and kings from different kingdoms and he used the opportunities he had to try to make them realize that they were sometimes acting in bad ways. He was much more down-to-earth and political than one sees today in many visions of Buddhism of the countries in the extreme orient. Buddha also criticized the Caste system and was views as a “trouble-maker” by many Brahmins of the time.
>What do you think of people who use modern-day-slave-labor in their fields of grain?
oh you mean like the tibetan lamas? i think they're scumbags
>And those Apple factories that use slave-labor in China?
not aware that any of these in fact exist, all the apple factories i know of in china pay above market wages and half more applicants than job openings
stay mad buddha buddy
Please don't tell me you think that was a valid counterpoint. Buddha's teachings were spread by people inspired by his guidance and message of enlightenment, someone like Richard Branson is famous because he has sex with models.
>oh you mean like the tibetan lamas? i think they're scumbags
Their actions don't magically change what the message of the Buddha was, which was ultimately against this selfish behaviour. Also, you are delusional if you think that these Lamas have even 1% of the negative impact that Western corporate power has in the world.
>all the apple factories i know of in china pay above market wages and half more applicants than job openings
You seriously think that its because Apple is such a benevolent company? These are desperate people and, like every other company, Apple are taking advantage of the population that has to accept whatever nonsense they're offered. I doubt you'd be grateful if you found yourself in their shoes.
>stay mad buddha buddy
I am not fighting with you or trying to win a discussion, I just don’t understand how can you be so blind.
>>What do you think of people who use modern-day-slave-labor in their fields of grain?
>oh you mean like the tibetan lamas? i think they're scumbags
Is does not matter who you are or what school of thought you follow. Anyone who doesn’t have empathy for other humans beings and explore them is acting like a sick-minded person.
>not aware that any of these in fact exist, all the apple factories i know of in china pay above market wages and half more applicants than job openings
Not China, yet:
bbc.com
You know, I was actually curious about who you are and what your background is. I don’t know if you are trolling, yet it seems to be sort of that.
But, if you let me guess, I think you are probably a young man who identifies with the “modern liberal views’, and with “neoliberalism” and with the “Milton Friedman school of thought”. If you are one of those, just know that you are much more a creature of your own time and one who is following the fashion: there is nothing original about this view, it is becoming the trending philosophy of the moment.
Buddhism = Communism
This is why you'll never make it.
>I doubt you'd be grateful if you found yourself in their shoes.
this
>giving the slightest shit about another person's living conditions = le communism boogeyman
But you've made it very obvious you're just baiting now
Buddhism = fascism.
>Buddhism = Communism
Wut?
>This is why you'll never make it.
Bet countries in the world when you combine the indexes of education, happiness, equality, economy, Human Development Index, etc., are the Nordid Countries, and they follow a model that is different from the Neoconservative and Liberal mind that is prevalent in the US:
en.wikipedia.org
They have already made it. Right here, right now, there are nations that proved that your philosophy of government is not even near the best one can expect.
It was a guess. Why don’t you tell us what is your view of life? Have I got anything right?
>le communism boogeyman
I dont like communism: it was put to the test and did not work. I think that there are much better models, like the one I mentioned before, the nordic one (altought I kknow that it still has flaws).
interesting philosopher user, thx
The "Nordic model" is a myth, stop reading the fucking Guardian already.
here you see the difference between the occidental and oriental mind: the christian looks to find love in everything, the buddhists looks to find suffering in everything
if you have to waste your life being spooked by one ideology which one do you think will result in a better experience?
My problem is that I was arguing against rampant and callous abuse of people by the "hero" CEOs that people earlier in the thread were glorifying, and you immediately assumed that I'm therefore a communist. My point is that you can still care about people's livelihoods without being a radical communist, its an idea that is found in most world religions or basic human empathy.
Basically every ranking of success that there is for a country has been topped by Nordic nations (HDI, Happiness, Education, Wealth Equality, Healthcare etc.) so I'm not sure what about that is mythical.
>Nordic nations (HDI, Happiness, Education, Wealth Equality, Healthcare etc.)
protestant white nations are more prosperous and happy than anyone else...this is supposed to be a surprise to anyone?
>Basically every ranking of success that there is for a country has been topped by Nordic nations (HDI, Happiness, Education, Wealth Equality, Healthcare etc.)
And those same rankings predict Sweden will be a third world country by 2030, take that as you will.
If Sweden dropped a few places it won't be because their standard of living went down to the level of third world countries. By contrast, the Portuguese HDI is now 0.905, close to the projected 2030 Swedish HDI. So they're supposed to drop places because other European countries are projected to overtake them while they lose a little. Also, that entire study is pure speculation. It's just statistical projections assuming things continue as they have in the past.
So many stupid people in this thread and on Veeky Forums. You're very right, OP.
Just see this lists:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
worldtop20.org
en.wikipedia.org
businessinsider.com
Combine them and you will see the Nordic governments are really working: whatever you call their political system, it works wonders.
If you think that their countries are “socialist”, well, then socialism is the best model currently available in the world.
Also:
Neoliberalism is already showing to be limited and being warned against even by the IMF (one of its larger supporters in the past). The model simply fails to generate equality in the long term, but quite the opposite: it makes the inequality abyss among human beings become even deeper and wider.
To sustain such a model only because of “anti-communism” propaganda, or because you are against “paying more taxes” is simply not wise.
>so I'm not sure what about that is mythical.
Well, ever wondered why the Wikipedia page instead of linking to reputable academic resources it instead links to a bunch of newspaper articles written by the huffington post, or a sociologists blog and a fucking book written by a person whose only credentials are "journalist"?
Or how that Sweden's welfare, choice and voucher system is directly influenced (borderline designed) by Milton Friedman?
>Basically every ranking of success
Basically every ranking of material comfort
You're right to mention that, but those other 'comforts' are really not something that can be properly measured.
I think you're heading into some conspiracy territory now, so maybe check something more reputable than Wikipedia (). You could just walk down any given street in Sweden or Denmark and compare it with the neoliberal American model (homelessness, overweight, lack of public transportation in most places, armed police officers etc.) and see that there is nothing mythical about which system is more beneficial for citizens that want to be healthy and secure in their lives.
You cultists are weird, we have hordes of beggars outside every shop and on every corner in Sweden.
No matter how much you talk about it, no matter how much you plead, no matter how much you threaten, joke, harass or insult there is not a force on this earth that will allow me to let you get away with it. I don't care who you are. I don't care what you have and who you know. I will not allow you to get away with this atrocity. End of story.
What are you talking about?
Give him a chance
If I were ever in a position where powerful corrupt business interests and politicians wanted me to let something slide this is what I would say to them. No. You will answer for this.
>cultist
ok
In 2015, 13.5% (43.1 million) Americans lived in poverty. In 2010, there was a 7% poverty rate in Sweden.
We've completely strayed from the thread topic, though.
y u mad tho
Do I sound mad? This is hypothetical resolve. I'm not even emotionally invested.