Redpill me on Aleister Crowley

Edgy autist that saw his wrongs in the last moments of his life.

>saw his wrongs in the last moments of his life.
>"wrongs"
Lel. Also,
[CITATION MISSING]

While the Lucius Trust may be UN affiliated, it's been largely denuded of core Theosophical teachings.

Meanwhile, oragnized has given me access to a surprisingly large network of "in the field" type practitioners, from archaeology, to music production, to law, to local gov, to uni professors.

I've routinely been stunned by how many academic departments have a Thelemite in them; one of my good professor buddies is an old-school Typhonian - does work on African ethnography chasing down Grant's speculation on Ophidian cults.

Blavatsky was OK, but I just don't think she made as many positive contributions to modern occultism. I also find her writings inferior to Crowley's but obviously he liked her enough to make her an honorary Magistra Templi in the A.'.A.'.

chutup fagit. crowley was a LARPer.

they're all larpers my man
magick, (as an umberlla term for several hypotheses), can be easily falsified, and is demonstrably, not real

Used made-up magical systems of seemingly endless complexity on impressionable young people to meme them into having gay sex with him.

/x/ please leave

Got him confused with Anton Lavey but he was rumored to say "I'm perplexed." He was edgy as fuck though.

The greatest modern occultist would hide in plain sight.

So, how did he make up direct translations of Coming Forth by Day?

Did he make up the Greek Magickal Papyri or the Sloane MSS?

If yes, please give citations given I host all of the above in my archive ( ).

No.

His wife reports a quiet death with a peal of thunder.
Residents at Netherwood (the cleaner) retell that he was pacing in his kitchen when he dropped dead.

>Also, LaVey never, ever, recanted his position and if you can prove otherwise, I'd love to see it.

More or less.

Oh, great, the "crowley expert" is here to educate all of us about what magic REALLY is.

Fuck off dude. Obviously I'm talking about his larp as a prophet.

>Oh, great, the "crowley expert"
I notice you use scare quotes despite the fact I'm probably the only person on Veeky Forums who has read his unpublished documents page for page.

I'm sorry you don't accept the Prophet.
As punishment for this spiritual transgression, I hereby condemn you to follow the Natural Orbit of your own primordially pure True Will in perfect harmony and agape.

>"the Science and Art of causing Change to occur in conformity with Will is demonstrably not real"

Care to demonstrate?

Greatest Addams family member.

Or, more impressively refute the findings of:

See:
>Neurotheology
>Shamanism: A Biopsychophysical Paradigm
>Kabbalah: A Neurocognitive Approach to Mystical Experiences
>Kabbalah and Psychoanalysis
>A Felt Sense: More Explorations of Psychoanalysis and Kabbalah
>Making Sense of Things: Archaeology of Sense Perception.
>Memes, Genes, and Human History: Darwinian Archaeology

He was a repressed homo and Christian who combined it with Mesmerism, Egyptian mythology, and spiritualism. The result was Crowleyanity.

Hehe I always wondered if they modeled Uncle Fester after middle-aged Crowley.

>Kabbalah
confirmed meme tier

>a repressed homo
I don't think anyone who reads his commentary on boipucci can call the dude "repressed".

Also he was bi as fuck.

>Mesmerism
I keep seeing this meme.

>Egyptian mythology
More like operative Egyptian rituals.

This ignores the influence of Tantra, Greek mysticism ala the GMP, the Neoplatonic facets from Chaldean Oracles, Enochian, the Yazidi implications, and other various Islamic bits, being a huge Ferdowsifag.

He was very popular in Serbia in 2004.

...Theravada Buddhism, Taoism

?
Wow, I sure am glad just saying "meme" negates like 2800 years of historicity in practice as well as recent neurological studies on the phenomenology of religious experience.

Interestingly he still sorta is in that region. Croatia hosts one of the five Grand Lodges of the OTO.

Fuck off charlatan

the list could go on

>charlatan
What, exactly, am I selling? As a curator of esoteric texts I require neither your time or attention, unless you're expressly interested in my collection.

>Also, why do you seem incapable of functionally addressing any of my points?

Charlatan (noun): a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill
>falsely claiming
>falsely
If you see thru him so easily, you shouldn't have any trouble refuting his assertions, or debating him on any of the topics that have been discussed thus far. Right?

Don't need to. Whether he's right or he's wrong doesn't negate the fact that he's name dropping to boost his pride. Killing the thread as well.

erwinhessle.com/writings/

>>Also, why do you seem incapable of functionally addressing any of my points?

Oh man I'd almost forgotten that name.

Where is the substantiation that he's "name dropping" and not just participating in the incredibly rare practice of Citation? And
>whether he's right or wrong
Means you have no idea wtf charlatan means, after having JUST had 2 definitions presented to you. It's OK, we get that not understanding simple concepts probably makes you realize you have an IQ in the double digits.

anything to say about erwin's 'interpretations'?

Not really.
They can stand or fall on their own merit.

Extremely poorly thought out theology, couldn't write a decent sentence of prose to save his life, plagiarized most of his "system", obsessed with his image to a pathological degree, bad with money.

Yeah, he was so obsessed with his image that he sat back and did nothing while being accused of everything from satanism to murder, while his associates urged him to go to court, and several of whom stopped associating with him unless he would bring slander and libel charges against these people.
>plagiarized
~t. Doesn't understand what syncretism is
>bad with money
yet somehow died with a safe full of the Order's money under his bed
>poorly thought out theology
Such as?
>couldn't write prose
examples pleasenthanks?

>Extremely poorly thought out theology
Like?

>couldn't write a decent sentence of prose to save his life
K. Not even pic related?

>plagiarized most of his "system"
I mean, there's CLEARLY a bibliography in M:TP and makes extensive use of footnote citations for everything from formal logic to Tyndall to Coming Forth by Day to Questions of King Milinda.

>bad with money
He was financially independent until like 1925, which was most of his life, and he died with a lockbox full of cash under his bed.

>pic related.

>~t. Doesn't understand what syncretism is
Also OBVIOUSLY has not read any number of the unpublished commentaries on important Libri such as 333, 65, etc.

>Reads Nietzsche once

Crowley's philosophy of Will appears to be closer to Schelling, and by extension Schope.

>Crowley's philosophy of Will is CLOSEST to Bataille, but ol' GB was some decades after Crowley.

Aleister Crowley was just a guy who loved fuckin and cummin

Is there such a thing as guys who *don't*?

Crowley was a poet of the highest order and if you're willing to read his books you will be enriched as a person. I recommend Liber Al Legis and The Book of Lies; as a primer I would recommend learning the Tarot.

Up there with Nietzsche for being taken at face value when making a statement that was not intended to be

Your hair was full of roses in the dewfall as we danced,
The sorceress enchanting and the paladin entranced,
In the starlight as we wove us in a web of silk and steel
Immemorial as the marble in the halls of Boabdil,
In the pleasuance of the roses with the fountains and the yews
Where the snowy Sierra soothed us with the breezes and the dews!
In the starlight as we trembled from a laugh to a caress,
And the God came warm upon us in our pagan allegresse.
Was the Baile de la Bona too seductive? Did you feel
Through the silence and the softness all the tension of the steel?
For your hair was full of roses, and my flesh was full of thorns,
And the midnight came upon us worth a million crazy morns.
Ah! my Gipsy, my Gitana, my Saliya! were you fain
For the dance to turn to earnest? - O the sunny land of Spain!
My Gitana, my Saliya! more delicious than a dove!
With your hair aflame with roses and your lips alight with love!
Shall I see you, shall I kiss you once again? I wander far
From the sunny land of summer to the icy Polar Star.
I shall find you, I shall have you! I am coming back again
From the filth and fog to seek you in the sunny land of Spain.
I shall find you, my Gitana, my Saliya! as of old
With your hair aflame with roses and your body gay with gold.
I shall find you, I shall have you, in the summer and the south
With our passion in your body and our love upon your mouth -
With our wonder and our worship be the world aflame anew!
My Gitana, my Saliya! I am coming back to you!
-Aleister Crowley

I'm inclined to agree with you, user.

What is your trip a reference to? I think it is an industrial album but I can't remember by who

Ape of Thoth
>google

>93
>Crowley was a poet of the highest order
Lol. I don't even think that and I'm a Thelemite.
His poetry was largely trash.

>The Book of Lies
^This, however, is great...but I'd be disinclined to call it poetry (though for the Crowley newb it may as well be taken as such).

poemhunter.com/best-poems/aleister-crowley/the-neophyte/

The one I posted just above is good too, but man you REALLY have to cherry pick to find GOOD poems in his Books of Oath.

On the other hand, I think he was a STELLAR playwright and his version of Tell-Tale was brilliant.

Also, the last chapter of Knox om Pax has some damn fine poems too lemme hunt 'em down.

No, it's a reference to Thoth's scribe, the baboon.

Cherchez la femme

Oh I thought it was The Ape of Naples by coil :)

Thelema to me is poetic; in the same way I see freudianism as a literature and not a science.

Speaking of women Thelemite poets, Claudia Canuto de Menezes has some stellar shit and is a professor down in Brazil.

>Also, the last chapter of Knox om Pax has some damn fine poems too lemme hunt 'em down.
bibliotecapleyades.net/crowley/konx02.htm#The Stone of Abiegnus

THE SUSPICIOUS EARL
There was a poor bedevilled Earl
Who saw a Witch in every girl,
A Wehr-wolf every time one smiled,
A budding Vampire in a child,
A Sorcerer in every man,
A deep-laid Necromantic plan
In every casual word; withal
Cloaked in its black horrific pall
A Vehmgericht obscenely grim,
And all designed—to ruin him!

He saw in every passer-by
Black Magic and the Evil Eye,
Interpreting the simplest act
As being a Satanic Pact.
Of course at times there were a few
In some sort victims of the crew;
For when his Countess coughed or sneezed,
“Obsessed!” the poor old fellow wheezed.
...
The Earl in question was:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Bennet,_7th_Earl_of_Tankerville

Fuck Coil.

>fuck coil
Fuck you tryhard.

Fuck Coil.
Fuck Throbbing Gristle.
Fuck Genny P.
Fuck Billy Breeze.

Long live Zero Kama.
youtube.com/watch?v=SCI8CVcJJ2M

he was friends with pessoa

Are they using a Theremin? Or some kinda whistle/pipe? Or synth?

Why would I listen to that when I could just listen to Bobby Beusoleil

>All instruments on this recording were solely made from human bones and skulls

>Bobby Beusoleil
Why listen to Bobby B when I can listen to the Man Himself?
youtu.be/XghYCnDnFy0

>doesn't post "Garbage Dump"
Oh well you tried.

I was gonna try to smart-ass you but you're sorta right. Take your pick, it's all good.
youtu.be/i8I4OYHfXIM
youtu.be/3WTj4L5iBDo
youtu.be/HOTnvPE_LMY
youtube.com/watch?v=CFnm5g7g0MQ&index=1&list=PLCC85BFBF44D1FE06

Its all good you're quickly becoming my top tripfag. How does one become a thelemite btw?

Accepting Liber L vel Legis

Accept Liber L vel Legis as the Law.
That's literally it, though it'd be nice if you pushed farther.

youtu.be/lPUiuGqxws8

I should have a re-read of that. What are you other literary interests?

>literary interests
Jesus Christ.

I unironically like DFW.
Bataille
Merleau-Ponty
Levinas
Scott from Slatestar's online Kabbalistic novel.
Ancient manuscripts
Obscure tantra of all kinds
Genre fiction: Horror (Clive Barker)
Andrew Chumbley
Evolutionary biology of consciousness.
Phenomenology of Religion.
Archaeology (my undergrad) and ethnography.
Administrative theory (Dewey, Buckminster Fuller, journals)
The study of Aesthetics, masks, and myth.
Etc.

Can we hear your reader's digest critique of Berashith, please? You mentioned some things about it a while back and I have been waiting for the right place and time to ask this.

>Berashith
Fug.

What, exactly, do you wanna know?

It's philosophically sound on its surface but L throws it sideways. It posits no true infinitude of Godhead outside abstraction due to ignorance where L posits hard spiritual infinitudes.

Berashith is early, and sorta masterful. I've not considered reconciling the positions for some time, perhaps a project to get cracking on.

>unironically like DFW.
Meh
Bataille
>now you're talking
>Merleau-Ponty
Have you seen "Pontypool"?
>Levinas
Haven't heard of
>Scott from Slatestar's online Kabbalistic novel.
Don't know it. I took a course in Qabala once in Safed, Israel
>Ancient manuscripts
I wish I could
>Obscure tantra of all kinds
What is tantra? Is it somehow related to Mantra etymologically?
>Genre fiction: Horror (Clive Barker)
Didn't know he wrote books
>Andrew Chumbley
Name sounds phones
>Evolutionary biology of consciousness.
The beginning was the end
>Phenomenology of Religion.
Are their books about this?
>Archaeology (my undergrad) and ethnography.
Neat
>Administrative theory (Dewey, Buckminster Fuller, journals)
Explains DFW
>The study of Aesthetics, masks, and myth.
Masks scare me because I'm slightly autistic
>Etc.

>Have you seen "Pontypool"?
Yes.

>Haven't heard of
Totality and Infinity: Explorations in Exteriority.

>Scott's thing
unsongbook.com/

>What is tantra? Is it somehow related to Mantra etymologically?
Tantra means "spine" or "binding" which holds a book together where Sutra means "stitch" in a binding holding pages. Tantras are esoteric, non-Puranic "Hindu" teachings.

>Didn't know he wrote books
Dude Clive's the shit.
youtube.com/watch?v=D4XidFz3NIg

>Are their books about this?
All around the library, especially in A.'.A.'.>Philosophy, linked my archive here:

Ah yes yes. You are the good sort.
>mfw didn't connect "sutra" with "suture"

That's kinda what i was looking for. I think you mentioned at one point that it doesn't jibe with his later stuff, and while an excellent piece, he came to recognize its faults later on (or something to that effect?). Do you think part of this has to do with the whole "what is true for the Adept may be false for the Neophyte, etc." rule?

if magick was real one predicted outcome is that people who practice it would be at the top of any dominance hierarchy considering the massive unique advantages that they will have compared to anyone else. they aren't, so the magick hypothesis is necessarily false.

also, the definition you quotes doesn't explain or describe magick in so far as you and people like you actually use the term, so it fails as a definition, and it just an attempt to hide the retarded shit you really believe behind a sensible looking exterior

>I keep seeing this meme.

What's up Ape. We had a conversation over at Veeky Forums some time ago about the works of Andrew Chumbley, Crowley, Mesmerism and some Arabic stuff.

I'm impressed how far I've seen this meme spread, considering how little and rarely I actually contribute to these boards. It would be nice though if people actually read up on this stuff to form their own opinion, rather than half-assedly parroting something they barely understand. Point in question – Crowley obviously had much more going for him than mere Mesmerism and it's retarded cousin Spiritualism, but we've already spoken a bit about this.

Schelling and Schopie were quite big on Mesmerism though, as was Goethe for that matter. It was a huge craze in Europe at the time and influenced much more than it is given due credit.

I'm surprised people haven't mentioned Gargantua & Pantagruel by Rabelais, which seems to have been quite an influence on Crowley. As a Thelemite, have you read it yet? I've been strongly considering it, but it seems too carnivalesque for my taste.

>any dominance hierarchy
Provide an argument for the existence of these.

people compete for shit
we call this dominance hierarchy
victory by analytic truth
qed

>people compete for shit
>we call this dominance hierarchy
You got a mouse in your pocket kid?

wut

>doesn't explain or describe magick in so far as you and people like you actually use the term
uhh...t-that *is* how I use the term(!?). T-that's why I quoted that particular definition, because myself and a fairly large contingent of folks DO define it that way.

I don't know why you're typing like this but the way you're stuttering is giving me a massive erection.

my man you were just giving me the crowley 101 magick definition i forgot what it's from

none of you larpers actually use that definition, first of all because every human alive or dead has tried to change his reality by exerting their will so it's a useless word, nobody outright says "today i'm going to try and do stuff" because it goes without saying, like using a marker to highlight the important sentences in a book, if you're going to highlight the whole thing might as well not do anything at all

1:a word that doesn't convey meaning never gets used
2:words only come into existence because people create them because they need to use them
therefore
3:the only words that exist are ones that convery meaning
4:the word "magick" exists
therefore
5:the word "magick" must convey meaning

(and secondly, i, from observing real usage of the word magick in specific instances, have managed to extract the general idea of the word by my mental powers of abstraction, so i know from lurking /x/ that this isn't what you cucks mean by the word)

>definition i forgot what it's from
Magick in Theory and Practice: Theorems and Postulates.

>none of you larpers actually use that definition
Actually, yes, that's the operating definition that's used, PARTICULARLY when someone pops up talking about fireballs and lighting bolts, pretending we're asserting powers straight from League, WoW, Skyrim, TTRPGS, or whatever vidya flavor of the month.

>first of all because every human alive or dead has tried to change his reality by exerting their will
Yup. Pic related.

>Nobody says "today i'm going to try and do stuff"
>he doesn't keep a schedule or actively strategize his actions

>5:the word "magick" must convey meaning
I mean, just because you don't like the particular definition doesn't mean it doesn't signify.

Would you prefer the anthropological definition?

give me the anthropological definition
also give me the etymological reason behind picking the word magic with a k of all things to describe this mundane thing, i remember coming to /x/ many years ago looking to learn about what magick is and only getting 100 different answers which only gave off the impression that everyone was making it up as they go along, to this day i hold resentment

regarding the (mis)interpretations of words like 'magick':

>He who became the Master Therion was once confronted by
this very difficulty. Being determined to instruct mankind,
He sought a simple statement of his object. His will was suf-
ficiently informed by common sense to decide him to teach
man ‘The Next Step’, the thing which was immediately above
him. He might have called this ‘God’, or ‘The Higher Self’,
or ‘The Augœides’, or ‘Adi-Buddha’, or 61 other things —
but He had discovered that these were all one, yet that each
one represented some theory of the Universe which would ultimately
be shattered by criticism — for He had already passed
through the realm of Reason, and knew that every statement
contained an absurdity. He therefore said: ‘Let me declare
this work under this title: “The obtaining of the Knowledge
and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel”’, because the
theory implied in these words is so patently absurd that only
simpletons would waste much time in analysing it. It would
be accepted as a convention, and no one would incur the grave
danger of building a philosophical system upon it.

oops!

>to this day i hold resentment
Sounds like a personal problem mate.
Maybe work on that overtly hostile tone if you're actually trying to lern a thing.

>give me the anthropological definition
magic - practices designed to gain control over the supernatural. Magic and religion are separated in several ways in anthropology. For some anthropologists magic tries to gain control over the supernatural. Others see magic as being individual, while religion is a group phenomena that creates lasting social bonds. Malinowski saw magic as a means to an end, while religion was the end in itself. Other anthropologists find separating magic and religion very difficult.

>etymological reason behind picking the word magic with a k
It's a middle German and early modern English spelling, used to denote shit like operations from grimoires as opposed to sleight-of-hand.

why is it that asking for the definition of magick will net you almost as many unique answers as there are unique ips, even in fields such as economics or psychology where there are many schisms between scholars there's at least a common body of work that's axiomatically accepted by everyone

when someone organizes their schedule or plans for the future they can say stuff like "i will do x" but the object of attention is always "x", people are concerned with practical problems, why is magic concerned with the "i will do" part? agency and free will are taken for granted, what kind of advances are there to be had in the area of will?

>Chaldeans
>Enochian
>Yazidis

Not that other guy, but boy howdy are you a surprisingly offensive LARPer. Yazidis are our contemporaries. Their beliefs have nothing to do with Crowley's fanfiction or his pathetic opposition to Christianity.

Post a pic, I want to see what a rube looks like.

>internet toughguy and shitposter
>frogs