Anyone else here /mormon/?

>mormon
Lol go back to your space station elohim

My good friend was raised mormon. He was explaining to me the whole 'get a planet when you die thing', sounds cool.

Thats only if youre good enough to become god.
Its just a cult.

>Its just a cult.
There is no distinction between a religion and a cult, only that one of them is considered legitimate for LARPing for a millennia or two instead of beginning yesterday.

There is no distinction between a rectangle and a square, only that one of them is considered legitimate for being a bit longer instead of beginning the same on all sides.

Brigham Young was a trap, no joke look it up.

Wrong.

Mormon here. I was inactive for about 5 years, from roughly 17-22, before finally going back to church and getting involved in a Young Single Adult branch. I still harbor some ill-defined doubts, but overall I'd describe myself as a faithful, in-good-standing member. (I received the Melchizedek priesthood recently, which requires following most--actually, just about all--of the Church's teachings.)

Mormonism, in its current form, is very far from being a cult or even cultlike. True, it's highly organized to a degree of near-corporate efficiency, with a firm emphasis on hierarchical organization and consistency-across-the-board, and members are encouraged (really, obligated--if they wish to retain their temple-worthy status) to affirm their leaders and the Church's institutional make-up as a whole. However, the Church places a huge emphasis on individuals' free agency and self-reliance, with programs that urge an almost Thoreauvian brand of self-sufficiency. Members are expected to develop a testimony of their own--all of the Church's faith-reinforcing systems and consistency protocols merely serve to guide people towards a virtuous or Chistlike way of being.

Although it comes across as cultish indoctrination that Mormons' rather insular lives are carefully structured and maintained in accordance with the Church's prescribed methods, I would defend the necessity for this tendency. The development of spirituality within any tradition demands a resistance to external pressures and, I think, necessitates a certain "quirkiness" or "eccentricity." Wherever a Christian denomination lacks this "eccentricity," you can be sure that they've caved to the pressures of an increasingly progressive culture. Most likely, anyway.

I mean, the absolute center of the Mormon church--and let's call it by its proper name: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--is Jesus Christ. Sure, you can selectively point to particular doctrines or past developments in its history and claim that it's heterodox or downright heretical, but the fact remains that pretty much all Mormons self-identify as Christian and the Church itself declares that its teachings and practices and overall mission are thoroughly Christian.

Really, the LDS church can be viewed as a return to primitive Christianity's basic beliefs, with an additional layer of Old Testament-ish structure.

What I don't understand is the Book of Mormon; it is an additional scripture isn't it?

Not him, but of course it is. What about it?

Extremely stupid post. Please hang yourself

Lol go read the pearl of great price you heretic. You and the joseph smith can fuck right off to Elohims space castle.

Okay well if it is an additional scripture and rejected by all mainline Christian churches then how is Mormonism not a seperate religion in the same way that Islam is?

Because it recognizes the divinity of Jesus Christ, unlike Islam. Jesus Christ's atonement is a central part of Mormonism.

Because they didnt omit jesus from their bible. Any actual christian would tell you that they really arent christians like the way they are though.

The gist of mormonism can be seen here for those who dont want to look anything up.
youtube.com/watch?v=7q6brMrFw0E

I never said it was a mainline Christian church. It isn't. It does actually believe the Bible (taking it very literally), unlike Islam. Mormonism is Christian in the sense that a Mormon is a believer that Jesus of Nazareth was the Son of God (unlike Islam). Mormons are definitely not Christians by the definition of a Christian as someone who confesses the Nicene and other creeds. This is the idea is talking about. The best descriptor of Mormonism is Christian but nontrinitarian, imo.

I'm a mormon. My bishop's wife recently gave me a book called "Understanding the Book of Mormon" by Grant Hardy, which is about narrative analysis of the Book of Mormon as a work of literature, putting on hold questions of veracity as scripture. Fantastic work so far. Uncovers a lot of the depth that makes the Book of Mormon such an amazing work, regardless of what its origin is. I think non-Mormons who are interested in the Book of Mormon as literature or Mormonism as a phenomenon would get a lot out of it.

That's a marginal, admittedly arcane detail of Mormon theology, which must be situated within the Church's broader, more Christ-centered set of practices and teachings. I mean, the Book of Mormon repeatedly states the importance of having faith in Christ and repenting for one's sins. Like I said, you can selectively (and narrowly) focus on the strangenesses, but that neglects the overall nature and purpose of the LDS Church: to make its member like Jesus Christ.

Noice one, bruv, got 'em again! haha I bet your mom is proud

That's President Brigham Young's son, Brigham Morris Young, so technically you're not wrong in that it is someone named Brigham Young but it isn't THE Brigham Young of LDS church fame.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._Morris_Young

what meditation do you practice and for how many hours per day?

Okay I suppose that is fair enough.

If you reject the things that separate the mormon church from other churches then why not just become a christian?
Why do you downplay the foundation of your sect? Are you embarassed? I would be.

obligatory
youtube.com/watch?v=46PXaJxzuDE

From a literary perspective, I think people often overlook to what extent the Book of Mormon draws from/parallels the Bible. King Benjamin's sermon is just Nehemiah's teaching at the temple, Nephi's apocalyptic vision is just Revelation. Mosiah tells the people not to want a king just like Samuel did before. Certainly a lot to be gained from looking at it from a literary perspective.

Thanks for sharing, definitely did not know this one.

What about the free planet?

I'm not rejecting it.

Mormons believe in apotheosis, like some of the early Church fathers. This means that in becoming like Christ, or like God (though we're non-trinitarian), we become "gods" ourselves in a sense--we become inheritors, or sharers, of God's glory.

I'm not mormon either but what's the point of stupid comments like this?

inb4 "do you know where we are" yeah yeah

>Religions are a subset of cults.
Yes, I suppose that is another way of putting it, user.

That does sound pretty dank, Mormons are pretty cool.

I certainly agree. The point of the Book of Mormon as scripture, after all, is to provide ANOTHER Testament affirming Biblical principles, not to change those Biblical principles. It makes sense that it would echo the Bible strongly.

The most interesting part of Understanding the Book of Mormon is that it points out and analyzes the differing motivations, agendas, and characteristics of the three different narrators/editors of the Book of Mormon (Nephi, Mormon, Moroni). Whether they are just fictional characters or were actual historical people, seeing how they differ as narrator characters has really broadened my understanding of the Book of Mormon. If it were a fake, it would still be an astounding work of literature. Highly recommended read.

Dont beat around the bush. Tell me about jesus' adventures in north america.

This is a very good post. In it, someone who is not me hits on a deep truth that should be repeated more often in places such as this which pretend to care about history and culture: precisely that the only difference between religions and cults is a difference of time, which is a difference of degree, and not of kind.

The key part of being a Christian is accepting Jesus Christ as your lord and savior, and the Son of God. Muslims just see him as another prophet.

written in an absurd, stilted faux-KJV style but with a surprisingly deep and imaginative narrative that is worth looking at for its own sake.

I read an interesting paper once looking at 1 Nephi as king Nephi's defense of his right to rule, a sort of apology of his reign. Makes a lot of sense, really explains why he goes to such lengths to paint Laman and Lemuel as fratricidal idiots- all to convince people that he deserves to be king, not his older brothers. Do you have any good dirt on Mormon or Moroni though? I can't think of much of anything besides Mormon's Captain Moroni fanboyism.

He just comes and gives a sermon and heals some people, comes back and does the same thing the next day. Spent a couple hours there, max.

Perhaps the most odd-seeming belief in Mormonism is that spiritual stuff is refined matter which we're not able to see (or tangibly experience) in our corruptible and imperfect form. The "planet" thing, in my own speculation (loosely connected to my knowledge of Mormon doctrine), is that it signifies a transition, or an ascension, to a higher mode of being--perfection and incorruption. Linguistic descriptions are naturally going to be provisional and incomplete.

Read 3 Nephi. It's not that long. But I can sum it up what you might want to know:

>A visionary from Jerusalem named Lehi sees Jerusalem destroyed by Babylon and so leads his family in to the wilderness of Arabia, c.600BC
>After messing around for 10 years, they decide to build a boat, and travel across the Pacific to the western coast of South America (probably)
>Lehi's sons split in to factions, immediately start warring
>A faction that mostly tries to stay true to God is called the Nephites, who strongly emphasize the messianic prophecies of Judaism
>After hundreds of years of warfare, Christ comes to the Nephites after his crucifixion and resurrection, descending from Heaven
>He repeats to them the sermon on the mount and teaches them His Gospel
>He leaves to go tend other sheep
>The Nephites live happily for a couple hundred years until they fall in to iniquity and apostasy and end up fulfilling the central prophecy of the book of mormon, which is:
>"Inasmuch as ye shall keep my commandments ye shall prosper in the land; but inasmuch as ye will not keep my commandments ye shall be cut off from my presence."
>The nephites are destroyed by the descendants of the other sons of Lehi (and others)
>after being on the run for thousands of miles, a guy name Moroni hides the records of their tragic civilization in the hopes that the truths contained therein would help their lost brethren (or future civilizations)

There you go. The Book of Mormon is essentially a tragedy of people continually falling in to iniquity and being punished until they are ultimately destroyed.

>Missing the point entirely

The concept that spirit is matter is definitely one of the more interesting ideas Mormonism brings to the table. Do you think it means Mormonism is inherently materialist?

Also the "getting your own planet" thing is honestly more literal than you're taking it. Yes, it's about living a divine sort of existence, but the central concept is that redeemed, divinized man will do exactly as God the Father did before, make their own worlds as he made his, redeem those worlds, etc. The main problem with the "getting your own planet" thing is that Mormonism promises endless increase in dominion and posterity (and even planets).

Not him, but as a Mormon I feel like it's actually a lot LESS literal than you're making it. I've very rarely heard anyone talk about getting literal planets. I always thought it was kind of like the concept of Buddha-realms in Buddhism. Certainly as you become more like Christ and more like Heavenly Father, you grow in spiritual capability. I think people in a lot of ways project their own realities outward, and as our internal reality becomes purer and we grow stronger spiritually, the reality that surrounds us begins to reflect the reality within us. In the process of exaltation after death, we are empowered to live fully within our own righteous sphere of spiritual influence, just as we currently live primarily within the spiritual sphere of our Heavenly Father. This mirrors closely the idea of Pure Lands and Buddha-realms to me, rather than being about literal planets. It may take the form of literal planets in many ways, but I think the spiritual principle is much larger than a simple material lordship over a cosmic dustmote.

ahhh magic stones and magic underwear?? ahh, no thanks fuck wad.

It does seem to make Mormonism more materially grounded, let's say, than other religious traditions--it's sort of Judaic, I guess. A lot of Mormons say that they feel a kinship with Jews.

Perhaps I was downplaying the literalness of inheriting divine status and a planet. But it could still be considered a symbolic representation of one's spiritual progression, which is (hopefully) moving one towards exaltation. The goal isn't the planet itself, of course. One strives to become like God in a spirit of humility and meekness.

>The main problem with the "getting your own planet" thing is that Mormonism promises endless increase in dominion and posterity (and even planets).

Why do you consider it a problem?

I feel like Joseph Smith was pretty direct in the King Follett sermon and the lesser-known sermon immediately following it. He lays it out pretty explicitly that God the Father was once a man subject to his own Father, and that when exalted we will be Fathers and Mothers ourselves.

I mean the "getting your own planet" thing is an understatement, it implies only one planet. A God in Mormonism will have dominion over endless planets, their number eternally increasing.

I can't join a religion that says my skin is colored the way it is because of sin.

Right, I agree with that. The King Follett discourse is genius to me.

How do you know it isn't, though?

That doesn't sound as crazy as I assumed it would tbqh.

What do Mormon men commonly do for a living?

Really the craziest parts are the crossing of the Indian and Pacific oceans, and Christ ascending from Heaven, but crossing oceans isn't that hard when you already believe in a book that has Moses parting the Red Sea so the Hebrews can walk across, and Christ descending from heaven really isn't that weird to anyone who believes in his resurrection in the first place.

Obviously I'm biased because I'm a mormon, but the Book of Mormon is actually a good book in its own right whether you consider it scripture or not. I recommend giving it a read if you can get past the pseudo-KJV styling.

Most Mormon men that I know work in medical, mental health (I'm sure that's hilarious to a lot of non-Mormons), tech, finance, or do something with small business/entrepreneurship.

Is there any evidence for this? Like in dna or ruins or carvings or anything?

Business. But they're sort of all over the place.

The evolutionary explanation is more parsimonious.

By contrast, the sin explanation seems very much like a product of it's time.

They write self help books.
Admittedly theyre decent ones.

Honestly, that's a good question that I don't have a very good answer for. The LDS church funds a lot of mayanology studies for that reason, I think. Though I am a mormon, I don't consider the historicity of the Book of Mormon that important to me, personally. The values and truths espoused in the Book of Mormon are worth it in themselves, and whether the Book of Mormon is just an extended parable or an actual history is not a question I've spent much time on answering. It is one of our Articles of Faith, that we do not know everything, and that there is much yet to be revealed. I apply this to my personal beliefs as well. I do not know everything, and there is much I will yet learn about these things.

That said, the benefits of the church to my life have been substantial, as have the benefits of studying the Book of Mormon and the teachings of the Prophets. Christ told us that we would know false prophets by their fruits, and I have found the fruits of the LDS church to be exceedingly good for me, so I am a mormon despite admittedly having no strong evidence for the historicity of the Book of Mormon.

So im just wondering here. If different gods have different planets do those planets have a jesus equivalent or do those people live in sin?

Presumably every god has a son comparable to Jesus.

>delusional faggot

I am not Mormon but I am related to Brigham Young and I live in the Provo area. Just trust me, Mormonism is a massive meme and there is a lot of anti-intellectual sentiment from Mormons.

WAYQ

>Moroni
>Moron, i
>i, moron

Mormons, everybody

I don't know. I'm not sure that different gods get different planets in this universe, versus their own universe of whatever size. I am not sure if there is a multiversal thing going on, or just planetary.

My conjecture would be that the Plan of Salvation as we have it here on Earth had Christ as a lynchpin, and this is Christ's world that we now live in. This world is the fruition of Christ's godhood. How far that extends past this physical Earth, I don't know.

I personally imagine that exaltation is a process that takes time. We are taught and trained and endowed with what tools we need. Currently, we exist in this world to learn to navigate the problem of good vs evil. This world is the current form of our academy. We don't graduate from this academy upon leaving this world and become immediately like Christ or God. We are in a process of Eternal Progression, wherein we become eternally more Christ-like, more God-like. I don't know what the stages of that progression would look like. I personally think it is beyond our current capacity to understand profitably, and so we are not taught the details. Our primary focus should be on proper conduct in this world. Questions of what we must do in the next life are better left to the next life to handle.

This is just my personal viewpoint and does not necessarily represent the Church's opinion.

>I am related to Brigham Young
Isn't that common as fuck?
Guy had 46 children.

what the fuck is WAYQ?

To me, the important part is that it is we, the readers, that are being taught. It doesn't matter whether the Nephites were a real people, or if they are simply a didactic tool. The lesson they teach us is the important part of their existence to me. It doesn't matter if there was no sam-i-am to like green eggs and ham. Green Eggs and Ham was written to teach little children something. Scripture is written to teach human beings something. My only question is, am I learning the lesson? I don't care about the rest.

you might as well just be go agnostic you little pussy. You're limiting yourself.
daddy's sky-boss is gonna be mad though huh?

Mormonism is the fakest bullshit, stop wasting your time.

Guys, god talks to me and told me what to write in this book.

Want me to prove any of these grand claims? Nope, you just gotta trust me ;D

And that jesus equivalent would die for the sins of the people on that planet? Would they all have to be crusified or would the manner of thier deaths matter?

Having standards and morals could be seen as limiting, yes, but all the commandments we are given are for our own benefit, not for the benefit of God. He doesn't need us to behave a certain way. He wants us to because it is what is best for us.

Following God is about choosing what is best instead of choosing what we desire at the moment. Is it limiting? In the sense that we get less of our petty desires in the short run. But in another sense it's freeing, because we are laboring toward our own best interests as individuals and as a society, and we achieve much greater rewards for ourselves in the long run.

I don't really see what you're getting at. Are you just trying to make me feel bad because I believe differently than you, or do you actually have something to say?

Well whats the churches opinion on the matter?

I just think you're literally retarded if you can't assume those positive ideas into your own subjective relationship with God.
Being associated with organizations like that is literally intellectual cancer. You're hurting humanity in the long-run. Good job, the G-man would be proud.

Fuck no there isn't

Why dont you believe bro?

>humanity
Lmao, and you dare rail against him, freaking hilarious.

They don't realize they're making excuses for Mormonism.

Only the death of the Son of God was enough to save us here on Earth. There's no reason to believe any other mechanism would work anywhere else- if there were a better way, God would have done that instead of sacrificing his Son. I don't know that the manner of death would matter, but crucifixion certainly makes a more powerful statement and a better symbol for the faith than almost any other method.

Everything he said is pretty orthodox.

explain how that's funny

More like:
"Guys, god talks to me and told me what to write in this book.

But don't take my word for it! Pray to God and ask him to reveal the truth of this document to you personally."

Stated right in the introduction page of the book of mormon

You are also spooked as fuck like him, just without any self-awareness.

So would that mean that other planets have romans that would cruxify people or what? Im not getting this. Do the other planets mirror ours?

Mormon bros should post more often. You guys are pretty cool.

sigh...
so you think humanity as an organization is a spook?
so is breathing you fucking tard. Somethings are paradoxical traps. There's a right and wrong way to organize.

If there is an explicitly stated one, I don't know it.

Pretty much every talk ever given by any of the prophets, apostles, or seventies is freely available from lds.org, though. You're welcome to look. BYU also has a nice wiki about mormonism. There is also FairMormon to answer a lot of these kinds of questions.

My knowledge is incomplete, and I acknowledge that. It may even be a gap in what we have revealed truth about, so we may simply all have to conjecture about it, like I did. As far as I know, this is the case.

>humanity as an organization is a spook?
If it's subordinating the ego(which it is), yes.
>there's a right and wrong way to organize.
I'm all ears.

I post a fair bit. I just usually never mention my religion unless someone asks, or it is a thread specifically about it. Probably the case for all of us here.

I don't necesarily know what the right thing is but I definitely know what it's not.
Submitting to organized religion is the weakest form of ego-subordination.
Like I said, he should just go agnostic and assume some values if he's going to be honest about this.

Thats unfortunate.

They would have some group that would kill their Christ. Not space Romans, though, every world is going to be unique, they're not clones.

Thanks, heathen friend.

The gist of what was saying is really all in the King Follett sermon, where Joseph Smith goes into this whole business with gods and planets and things. You can look it up. Definitely the starting resource to understand Mormon thought on this whole business.

So would every planet have a satan as well?

i fucking hate spookfags.
They're always deeply religious people and the pathetic irony of it all makes me lol in despair