Zizek going ham on PC culture

Okay well the Frankfurt School were I suppose the original cultural marxists but their ideas have been distorted wildly. Think Nietzsche and the Third Reich. Anyway, political correctness is not a myth and this is coming from probably one of the (quietest yes and) most left-leaning posters on lit.

>We could have had leftist social welfare policies and right wing traditionalism

Just be honest and call it national socialism.

wut? What does class and pc have to do with each other? id say it's pretty far reaching in general. look at that ben affleck video where he goes batshit crazy at sam Harris

>implying ben affleck is upper class

>Just be honest and call it national socialism.
But it isn't national socialism.

Anti-PC is cliché and passé.

>we could have had right wing traditionalism b-b-but it wouldn't be nationalism!!

ok so you're a retarded larper then carry on

This. We should just let them run riot tbqh

There's no reason that you actually need to interact with leftists. Just ignore them.

>tfw Samuel Johnson and Edmund Burke were national socialists

>Samuel Johnson
He was just a royalist
>Edmund Burke
Conservative

You dumb fuck no you interact with everyone and educate them if you can holy shit

educate people? hahaha good luck with that buddy. get back to me with how that works out.

REEEEE I KNOW YOURE RIGHT BUT I REFUSE TO STOOP TO THE LEVEL OF THE ALT RIGHT RACISTS AND THE LEFTIST BIGOTS AND DEMAND THOSE WITH DIFFERENT IDEOLOGIES BE SILENCED AHHHHHHH BUT HUMAN PROGRESS DOESNT EVEN EXIST GODDAAAAAMNIT I DONT WANT TO EMBRACE POWER STRUCTURES BUT THEY WILL ALWAYS EXIST FUCK FUCK

What's with Eastern Europeans using "and so on." Zizek uses it all the time, and that one Polish MEP who was criticized for sexism used it a lot.

Yeah that's why I quit social media and do reading/writing instead

>leftist social welfare policies
Good as long as they don't get so big that they crash the economy.
>and right wing traditionalism
Yuck. Yuck. Yuck. Get that shit out of here.

>Yuck! It's not simpleton bourgeois capitalism!
You brainlets are getting annoying

>It's not simpleton bourgeois capitalism!
That's not the problem I have with it. The problem is that right wing traditionalism sucks to live under, is unethical, and is incompatible with modern societies/economies (check out the scientific/economic level of the most right-wing traditional societies on Earth today - they are all shitholes). Also, it's a ridiculous fantasy anyway. What "tradition" is, is always largely the invention of the modern person, not an authentic following of the ways of past people. The so-called right wing "traditionalist" is just as much an ideological fantasy-chaser as the most utopian leftist.

Damn, I guess you're right. Eliot and the rest just couldn't see it.

At least give me something of substance. Every anti-culture poster starts with the same misunderstandings

Probably a transliteration of some common phrase in eastern European languages that has a bit broader of a meaning and contextually is more normal in its native language than when transliterated into English.

tl;dr linguistic culture

>is incompatible with modern societies/economies

It's funny you post this, and you assume it's the traditionalism that needs to be gotten rid of.

> incompatible with modern societies/economies (check out the scientific/economic level of the most right-wing traditional societies on Earth today - they are all shitholes)
idk I think Israel is doing fine

>The fact that such an approach amounts to no less than a major shift in our political space is a sad sign of the times we live in. But it is also a new confirmation of old Hegel’s claim that, sometimes, naïve outspokenness is the most devastating and cunning of all strategies.

So, New-New Sincerity?

Kind of. More like, just saying what you want to say plainly, and at a high volume. It's amazing how much simple declarations cut through bullshit and obfuscation. You can totally browbeat people by plainly and straightforwardly yelling your points at them, both because of how aggressive you are and because they're unused to being confronted with the truth plainly stated.

>unethical
How?

>anti-culture poster
???
Israel isn't really right-wing traditional, although they have aspects of that. If its traditionalists took control of the state, I think they would crash it.

Nothing wrong with nationalism

And to call it "national socialism" is to make more implications that what is actually being said. A traditional country with social welfare needn't be a lawless hellhole governed by brutal secret police. It would be more lawful than society os today, as laws would actually be enforced, and prisons would actually be supervised

Left wing liberalism sucks to live under too. Or do you think I enjoy pop music and gay pride?

Tradition and conservatism is the preservation of systems that have evolved over centuries that are too complex for you too understand. They are very easy to destroy, but not so easy to create once it's gone - like law and the constitution.

As for incompatibility with modern economies, all I can think of is women in the workforce instead of raising children. We need a solution there. The boost to the economy is nice. It would also be nice if white women didnt have sub replacement fertility.

go zizek

>national socialism
>traditionalism
Pick one, modernist!

>starting sentences with lower case letters outside of greentext
Ok, you have some discipline to catch up on.

Most of the lower classes aren't racist nor homophobic etc. They don't mean anything when they say negroe. And frankly they don't care because they are too busy, you know...working! And that is class politics, because the lower classes can't afford to aqcuire the intellectual capital required to be up to speed with the latest fads.

Capitalism/socialism debates have become useless since the means of production are mostly outsourced. Right now the debate is mostly about taxation and how high it should be.

>Corbyn
>rejecting PC culture
is he retarded? the whole of corbyn's constituency is formed of liberals living in 99% white neighborhoods and the minorities they bribe with gibs

He should be rejoicing that we're one step closer to the inevitable global communist revolution!

OY FUCKING VEY

>he actually writes "and so on"

non-native here. is there a normal way to indicate that a list may continue? or is it just understood?

It's very common, but usually it's used to indicate a continuation after several items are listed, not just one as zizek does at one point in the article.

In academic writing, however, 'etc' seems to be the most common.

The issue with writing "and so on" or etc. is less of a grammatical one, and moreso one about whether you ACTUALLY have more examples.

To illustrate, imagine if I said "DFW has tons of great works, like Infinite Jest and so on." By saying "and so on", I can appear to be knowledgeable about his works without having to know anything but Infinite Jest. I don't provide an actual list here. Instead, I provide a single item and then a mental "blank" for the reader/listener to fill in with what is presumably the item most agreeable to their point of view. You may fill it in with The Pale King, someone else may fill it in with Brief Interviews With Hideous Men. Either way, I don't have to be familiar with any of those works at all, not even their existence, because you insert that information yourself.

sad to see yet another public intellectual latch on to the alt-right hate train.

It's totally fine. But he uses it so frequently it's become a meme.

jesus christ, how out of touch is zizy? it's current year, how could you ever call the labor party not politically correct? they had even gender segregated meetings to not offend some people

>these are perfect systems!
>but pop music and gay parades can destroy them
lol

>If one just mentions that this populism draws a good part of its energy from the popular discontent of the exploited, one is immediately accused of “class essentialism”.
>class essentialism

Can any Marxists explain this one to me? Is class essentialism the antithesis of intersectionality or something?

>Such a tweet culture which combines official tolerance and openness with extreme intolerance towards actually different views simply renders critical thinking impossible. It is a true mirror image of the blind populist rage à la Donald Trump
Just do the marxist thing and say it, Slavoj: social media are corporations, universities are corporations, this culture (or lack thereof) is that of corporations.

Fucking say it.

It's the viewpoint that all/most injustice in society is explained by class rather than race, gender, or other factors. Hence it is SJWs favorite swear word to use against lefties who don't buy into their shit.

Nice article

B-but the history of all hitherto existing society is the historoy of class struggles?

Political Correctness is an attempt to control the acceptable range of political opinions held by the public. This can only be done through pressures at multiple levels of society, but it only ever serves the ruling class.

When the French press under the King attempted to limit the dialogue and opinions acceptable to print in newspapers to control public thought, that was Political Correctness. When Lenin did the same, he CALLED IT Political Correctness.

This is not a Left/Right thing, everyone does it when they are in power and it is never acceptable. If ideas cannot be discussed openly however odious you believe them to be, then you are not actually discussing anything at all.

This is basic stuff. Marx himself fled the PC-Police. Jesus Christ, how can you not know this? The Right is actually CORRECT about PC culture, it isn't a boogieman, it's a real thing now controlled by Neoliberals to make all forms of dissent (True Left and Right) impossible.

Ex. When Bernie Sanders had to cross his arms like a cuck and let that BLM bitch take his microphone and snivel about her race-politick nonsense, that was because of Political Correctness. It has materially impacted even moderate left-wing movements in this very political cycle.

>right wing traditionalism sucks to live under
People are more miserable today than they have ever been before.

>is unethical
You're right, things are so much better now that we've normalized the commodification of identities.

>and is incompatible with modern societies/economies
Which are all evil...

So what's your point? It sounds genuinely superior to what we have now. There is not a single defense of modern secular liberalism that does not collapse when you ask "will it still be here in fifty years?"

Liberalism is dead. Nobody but fools defends it anymore. You can chart the trajectory of every society on Earth today and say where it will be next century and in most cases, the answer for liberal countries is "gone."

The problem is that that is simply, empirically false. Class struggle occurs occasionally, but so does every other kind of struggle, and class struggles generally don't end with actual class changes.

When the Roman Plebes raised up Marius and later Caesar, what happened? An Emperor. Not a rebuke of the class system but an EXPANSION of it.

Class struggle has never been real. What you have are intersecting identity groups that can be rallied temporarily to accomplish some end. The Marxist view of class struggle as the defining thread of history is simply wrong. You're going to see this in a big way over the next few decades. Does anyone here actually think that fucking class struggle is going to be the big conflict in the 21st century?

Anyone? Does anyone believe that. Raise your hand if you think that Europe is going to have a class war in 2050. Is that what you see on the horizon? Of course not.

The SJWs are actually right, they're just cunts. Identity politics were ALWAYS the driving force in social conflict. Class is just another identity.

Yes class struggle is already the major conflict. The developed world is being attacked by the developing world. If not attacked outright in the form of terrorism, problematized in the form of things like the refugee crises. Mobility via planes, cars, etc. is being accessed by people living far from the concentrations of wealth to move closer to them. Those already living in those concentrations, even if they are relatively poor by the standards they live in, are going to come into conflict with the real underclass. Class conflict like everything has just become global. I haven't read enough of Marx to know if he predicted this or not. The reason it seems different is because the nation-state is dissolving.

>I am trans-rich
>why aren't you letting me drive away in this Bugatti
>rich people can't go to prison you are triggering me arrrghhb

Nationalism doesn't have to lead to socialism, does it?

>refugees are class stugglers

islam is not revolutionary, if you have any doubt check out the emirates where some of the richest people in the world refuse to even pay poverty wages to their literal slaves

>People are more miserable today than they have ever been before
Ironically I thought I was on Veeky Forums when I came upon this thread.

Islam is the identity politics used to marshal the class struggle. You were right on a superficial level. Ideology is what class struggle is obscured in, it is terribly ironic that Marx produced "Marxism" in fact. Anyway yes, the refugees are engaging in class struggle involuntarily as it were, they are motivated by economic factors, they are poor, they want to be where the money is to get some of that money, the people who are already near the money don't want to lose any and so they compete, they use political, military and police forces to compete, the poor refugees either become indoctrinated insurgents or don't but either way they are going to play a passive or active role in the class struggle.

Religious ideology or culture isn't necessarily represented best or even accurately by the most corrupt who espouses it
If this was the case, every religion would fail to be revolutionary

but you even say the refugees are competition with the local working class for the proletarian cut of the economy, they aren't even trying to take wealth from the ruling class, so it's not class struggle at all

if islam was any threat to the bourgeoisie they wouldn't have used islamism to block the spread of bolshevism in central and south asia, it's completely reactionary

>he thinks internal conflict is not part of class conflict

I'm not saying Islam is revolutionary. It is reactionary. That is the point. It actually serves the capitalists. Hence why Trump sold billions in weapons to Saudi Arabia.

Also the global poor are the real proletarians. First world proletarians are incredibly rich compared to their counterparts in the developing world. Billions of people in this world are living on like $2/day.

Islamism isn't the sum total of what Islamic culture and practice can offer a revolutionary movement.

As for its use to stiff Bolshevism, it can, and does provide competition albeit feeble, to the spread of western juridical practices and culture

people living on 2$ a day aren't proletarians tho since they are essentially outside of the world trade system, someone making two dollars a day is probably doing subsistence agriculture and selling any surplus on a local market, there ins't any really an "capital" around to be exploited by, you should read some marx bro, just being "poor" doesn't mean you're proletarian, otherwise peasants would be proletariat not peasants

>outside the world trade system
No they aren't. Technology has enabled us to exploit people in every country on Earth. The Bangladeshis tearing down scrapped freight ships for starvation wages are definitely part of world trade. The Venezuelans selling tooth brushes on Columbian buses to feed starving children are also part of world trade. The reason Marxism is so laughable is the same reason Darwinian evolution is laughable to a contemporary geneticist. It is too simple, it doesn't fit today's reality. The world proletarian is a mistake and you're missing my point. The poor are in conflict with the poor, with the middle class and the rich, income determines your fate and income inequality is growing at nearly exponential rates since the beginning of world trade.

*the word proletarian is a mistake

>The Venezuelans selling tooth brushes on Columbian buses to feed starving children are also part of world trade

so you think the mismanagement of the venezuelan economy by people democratically elected by venezuelans is actually a corporate conspiracy by oral-b to sell more toohbrushes? get a grip you loon

>when u take the reddest pill of all

I didn't even imply that. I'm saying that those transactions are being done in currencies which are traded globally and that no nation's economy happens in a vacuum any longer. Venezeula's poverty is the result of clandestine liquidization (millions in US dollars were introduced into the economy inflating the native currency)
and the price-fixing of oil by the rich >google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/why-oil-prices-plunged-steady-rise-573666?amp=1
Why did they do it, I can't even guess, probably because Chavez was nationalizing OPEC interests.
>google.com/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSBRE89701X20121008

>kicks out multinational corporations
>economy goes to shit when no one wants to invest in a despotic state with no property rights or rule of law
>it's capitalism's fault

ooohkay

I didn't say it was capitalism's fault but you've made my point anyway, the world economy is entirely dependent on multinational corporations.

yes, if you want to have a developed economy with a middle class, which is my point, people living on 2 dollars a day are not living in a developed country with multinational corporations...how did china raise 300 million people to the middle class in 30 years? by inviting in foreign investment aka big bad mutlinationals, leftist are so fucking stupid man you would think after the failure of stalinism and maoism you'd give it up and get a clue but then you wouldn't be able to resentful little whiners all day

How do you even think the world economy works? You're being petulant to an extreme. Multinational corporations operate in those countries where people exist on $2/day. Multinational corporations are the prime mover in every financial transaction on the earth. The poor of the world, when they decide they will move towards concentrations of wealth will come into conflict with the people who are there, the rich of the world, and this is class conflict. I'm not even "left" you cunt, i was just being told I should read Marx. My major political influence is Henry Kissinger. Power must be managed, and class conflict is part of that. Denying that class exists is fucking retarded.

>My major political influence is Henry Kissinger

holy shit what a retard why do i read this site oh yeah internet addiction

>internet addiction
Nice way of describing your cognitive dissonance. Henry Kissinger was right in every way that Marx was wrong

so if you're such a big kissingerist why are you crying about poor people in latin america since kissinger helped slaughter tens of thousands of them

>ethic
Spook central

I wasn't crying about it, I was saying that the poor there are poor in large part due to policies meant to combat Chavez nationalistic policies. Nationalistic socialism is a dysfunction and undermines the principal policies of finance and political organization on a global scale. Heavily concentrated wealth is also dysfunctional. It is creating problems that cannot be solved by political means, and there will be recourse to military intervention. This is costly and risky to the west, and should be avoided if there is a way. Political globalization needs to be interlocked with economic globalization or we are going to see the same problems we are having today spiral into a great deal of chaos.

Always find it funny whem gringos start talking about shit they clearly do not understand.

Enlighten us pinche puta

Venezuela's economical have nothing with none of your ideologies, and all to do with the rampant corruption that venezuelans accept as the rules of their society, similar cases in the rest of latin america.

>corruption
Yeah that's what I meant. It isn't about ideology it's about people doing what they can to get fucking rich and have power. That is how the world works. It isn't cultural Marxism, it isn't postmodernism it's the human condition.

So is caring about anything. Its not cool to be sane.

Spook city bitch spook spook city bitch

Yeah, man. Corruption is more of a durvival technique over here. The game is rigged from the start, all you can do is adapt, and try to make the best moves. Thus, every aspect of society suffers fron this type of behavior, and added to the loss of values, which in part i attribute to the american-consumerist-mentality expansion, you have fucking chaos as you can see in the news.

Americans did not fuck us up with capitalism or imperialism. They fucked us up with their degenerate "culture" of divorce, iphones, and pop music.

something =/= its fandom

I agree with you. Consumer culture will destroy life as we have known it. In fact it has already happen and we are just going through the painful transition phase. There are no breaks on this train.

I do not think it's as bad as most think. Russie has not fallen to it, yet, and they will overpower us eventually.

>right-wing traditionalism