The Iliad and the Odyssey

Hey Veeky Forums what translation should I go for? This one seems popular but I heard there's a better one

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>Stanley Lombardo

Rage:
Sing, Goddess, Achilles' rage,
Black and murderous, that cost the Greeks
Incalculable pain, pitched countless souls
Of heroes into Hades' dark,
And left their bodies to rot as feasts
For dogs and birds, as Zeus' will was done.
Begin with the clash between Agamemnon--
The Greek warlord--and godlike Achilles.

>Alexander Pope

Achilles' wrath, to Greece the direful spring
Of woes unnumber'd, heavenly goddess, sing!
That wrath which hurl'd to Pluto's gloomy reign
The souls of mighty chiefs untimely slain;
Whose limbs unburied on the naked shore,
Devouring dogs and hungry vultures tore.
Since great Achilles and Atrides strove,
Such was the sovereign doom, and such the will of Jove!

>Robert Fitzgerald

Anger be now your song, immortal one,
Akhilleus’ anger, doomed and ruinous,
that caused the Akhaians loss on bitter loss
and crowded brave souls into the undergloom,
leaving so many dead men — carrion
for dogs and birds; and the will of Zeus was done.
Begin it when the two men first contending
broke with one another —
the Lord Marshal
Agamémnon, Atreus’ son, and Prince Akhilleus. . . .

>Robert Fagles

Rage — Goddess, sing the rage of Peleus’ son Achilles,
murderous, doomed, that cost the Achaeans countless losses,
hurling down to the House of Death so many sturdy souls,
great fighters’ souls, but made their bodies carrion,
feasts for the dogs and birds,
and the will of Zeus was moving toward its end.
Begin, Muse, when the two first broke and clashed,
Agamemnon lord of men and brilliant Achilles. . . .

>Richmond Lattimore

Sing, goddess, the anger of Peleus’ son Achilleus
and its devastation, which put pains thousandfold upon the Achaians,
hurled in their multitudes to the house of Hades strong souls
of heroes, but gave their bodies to be the delicate feasting
of dogs, of all birds, and the will of Zeus was accomplished
since that time when first there stood in division of conflict
Atreus’ son the lord of men and brilliant Achilleus. . . .

>Peter Green

Wrath, goddess, sing of Achilles Peleus's son's
calamitous wrath, which hit the Achaians with countless ills—
many the valiant souls it saw off down to Hades,
souls of heroes, their selves left as carrion for dogs
and all birds of prey, and the plan of Zeus was fulfilled—
from the first moment those two men parted in fury,
Atreus's son, king of men, and the godlike Achilles.

>George Chapman

ACHILLES’ baneful wrath resound, O Goddess, that impos’d
Infinite sorrows on the Greeks, and many brave souls los’d
From breasts heroic; sent them far to that invisible cave
That no light comforts; and their limbs to dogs and vultures gave:
To all which Jove’s will gave effect; from whom first strife begun
Betwixt Atrides, king of men, and Thetis’ godlike son.

>Rodney Merrill

Sing now, goddess, the wrath of Achilles the scion of Peleus,
ruinous rage which brought the Achaians uncounted afflictions;
many the powerful souls it sent to the dwelling of Hades,
those of the heroes, and spoil for the dogs it made of the bodies,
plunder for all of the birds, and the purpose of Zeus was accomplished —
sing from the time when first stood hostile, starting the conflict,
Atreus' scion, the lord of the people, and noble Achilles.

The Iliad for Boys and Girls


archive.org/details/iliadforboysand00homegoog

Being said that I know both ancient Greek and Italian other than English, I'd say: read Vincenzo Monti's one if you know Italian between all those I've read in Italian and English is the most similar to original. But since I guess you don't know Italian, go for Alexander's Pope one.

>recommends the most faithful one in Italian
>recommends the least faithful one in English

What did he mean by this?

Fitzgerald

If you happen to know some Greek, go for a Loeb. The translations vary in quality, but you'll get a taste of Homer's poetic genius.

Thanks user!

What's the worst Iliad/Odyssey translation?

Not OP but, if I can't get a version that doesn't go out of its way to rhyme, how about something that would be the closest 1:1 literal translation? These are all translated so different it appears as they were just articulating it in any arrangement of the central theme to shoehorn it into verse. And if not because I find the meter disruptive, then because I find the very notion disingenuous.

>how about something that would be the closest 1:1 literal translation?

Word around here is that Lattimore is the most literal, but I don't know for sure.

Lattimore is the most literal.

Good post

Who should I get for the Odyssey? I don't like Fitzgerald's style and I heard Lattimore is clunky in that translation.

maicar.com/GML/SingGoddess.html

W.H.D. Rouse is the clear winner IMO

>bitter rancour

lmao

Stanley and Robert are superior

Lombardo sounds really good.

Fitzgerald is easily the worst.

Lattimore. The best part is that his literalism doesn't detract from the Iliad in any substantial way. It's a beautiful story

Rodney Merrill is best by far. Lattimore is just as literal, but much weaker poetically. Fagles is an approximation. Lombardo and Fitzgerald are interpretations. All other translations are garbage not fit to wipe with, including Pope's embarrassing effort.

Funny, I thought the same. Apparently, one must give up any pretense to patrician status if one likes Lombardo or Fagles, but I don't care. After reading countless Veeky Forums threads on the matter, the vague consensus here seems to be that Lattimore is the literally "correct" rendition without compromising too much on poetic quality, with Fitzgerald as a close second, Fagles as a very tolerable beginner's/pleb version and Pope/Chapman for extra patrician points. Then I thought I should really see for myself, patriciandom be damned. So I went and gathered as many editions as I could and I started declaiming out loud the first verses. Lombardo sounds best to me. Sure, he is edgy and full of a perhaps sophomoric bravado but something tells me that that's how Homer sounded to his listeners, that's how they wanted him to sound and that is how he liked it too, that is what he strove to employ his talent for: to bring to life men and gods alike. Whether be succeeds or not, Lombardo loves his Homer. I believe he says somewhere in the preface that he means his Iliad to be read out loud. Apart from that, I loved his deliberate choice to separate and highlight Homer's god-like similes--by means of formatting and metre--from the main text (other translators do that for lines of dialogue and speeches, and that works well too).
Fagles is not very far in terms of beauty and ease of verbal rendition. Fitzgerald is atrocious; I couldn't stand his "faithful" transliteration of Greek names ("Akhilleus"). Lattimore is tiring and tedious when read out loud. Being literal is useless if it doesn't sound good--there, I've said it, come at me. Pope and Chapman have their unquestionable beauty, yet my mind cannot let go the fact that Pope sounds like--well, Pope. That is, it sounds too much like Elizabethan poetry than Homer. Yes, I realize that I can't tell what Homer is supposed to sound like. I think he is likely to have sounded like Lombardo, however I do not have any scholarly reference or background to back up that assertion; call it intuition and feel free to disagree.
There were others that I liked: Merrill and Johnston spring to mind. If you feel you must read a prose version, make that version the revised Rieu. Butler is also decent and even funny--but don't ask me: funny how. It seemed to me there was something playful and tongue-in-cheek about his translation, though I'm sure that's just me.
To clarify: Lombardo and Fagles are the only translations I've read in full; the others I judged by the beginning of book I (up to when Achilles calls for the leaders to ggather in council, usually, or even less) and by a certain metaphor that is perhaps closest to my heart: it's right at the end of book IX, the last twenty lines or so, when the Trojans gather on the plain and night falls and the light fires and the moon...but I'm not going to say it better than Homer so go read it.

Here is a resource that might come in handy for those who want to see for themselves:
records.viu.ca/~Johnstoi/homer/homertranslations.htm
There's also a page with quotes from the main translations on Wikipedia.

OP here I'm torn between Lombardo and Lattimore.

What do you guys recommend? Should I go for the most literal one? Would anything be lost with Lombardo?

Reading Fagles' translation atm. It's very easy to understand but still written with a deft hand to the point where it's interesting and poetic. I'd say that it's a good place to start.

>Would anything be lost with Lombardo?
A line-for-line translation; that is, each line of Lattimore translates one line of Homer, not more, not less. If you find out why that is supposed to be a good thing, be sure to let me know.
>Would anything be lost with Lattimore?
Fun. (Oh no, I have said the forbidden word. I can hear the butthurt belligerent boos already.)

>reading a translation

Ah thanks I chose to with Lombardo for both the Iliad and the Odyssey and will probably get Lattimore for both at a later date

>robert

Lombardo > Fagles > Pope > Fitzgerald

Good plan. Make sure to also check out Merill and perhaps Mitchell as well, for when you're done with Lombardo.

homerus's translation into ancient greek, monsieur, is perhaps the closest to the original.

>waow Lombardo sounds really good
>I think i'll get it!
but then...
>pic related
really made me think

He justifies the cover by saying that the Trojan War was to the Greeks as D-Day and WW2 are us, that they changed their perception of the world dramatically.

weak justification and obviously a big mistake

I just finished reading the Illiad. Fagles' translation. It's good and easy to understand, but my gripe is that there are many places where the book feels repetitious and dull, such as in the Funeral Games in book 23. With a more fancy translation, perhaps I would have found beauty in those places, rather than boredom. Other than those isolated points, though, it was beautiful. The final few pages with the return of Hector were absolutely magnificent I almost cried.

Like the generations of leaves, the lives of mortal men.
Now the wind scatters the old leaves across the earth,
now the living timber bursts with the new buds
and spring comes round again. And so with men:
as one generation comes to life, another dies away.

Can I get some opinions on translations for the Aeneid? I've read the opening to the Fagles, the Fitzgerald, the Mandelbaum, and the West, and I liked the Fitzgerald best. However, I can't find an ebook for the Fitzgerald so its sorta inconvenient to read for me

Does any of the translations also contain the original Greek? I'd quite like to read and compare them side by side.

The Iliad has origin in oral traditions of poetry and it is known for repetitions.

It is a pretty bad cover same for the Odyssey

The turns of phrase are meant to be repetitive, for rememberising.

This, but if you must and if available read a translation superior to the original, therefore read chapmans