Whenever an anime protagonist started ranting about morals and ethics I felt that his logic was either way to contrived...

They are not ashamed of sex but would commit suicide if they injured another person's honor. So juvenile.
Westerners who are ashamed of their natural instincts and could care less about hurting other people are so much more mature!

Ethics is not selfless. Don't interpret "compromising your own interests" as selflessness. But compromising is ethics nevertheless.

committing suicide based on honor isn't a foolish and juvenile thing to do? "oh, i stepped on your floor and forgot to take off my shoes, better commit sudoku". really sensible.
westerners are shamed to the point of temperance, they are willing to be asinine cretins in this world, knowing that they were born asinine cretins. they are lodged in life, whereas the child has a whimsical sense of suicide based on the merest scent of shame. we are floating in shame in the west. only our foolish and juvenile teenagers kill themselves, they and the juvenile and foolish rockstars or mentally ill. noticing a pattern? your seppuku as a rule falls under the inability to accept one's own mistakes, and strive to transform themselves. most westerners make idiot moves believing that some day they'll get better at not being dolts if they're just patient enough, or work hard enough. they're often wrong, but they don't give up just because of a one time besmirchment.

what is selflessness but compromising one's own interests for others? pretty sure that's exactly what it is.

If we assume that then is ethics inherently selfless or do you have a different definition of ethics.

no, ethics is a system by which one exerts their morals, you defined ethics as "about contributing to society in and compromising your own interests in order to fit in."
which is easily conflated with the concept of selflessness, at which i scoffed, as ethics are hardly whatever strange shit you just equated them to.

to expound,
a moral statement would be "it is wrong to kill"
an ethical statement would be "i am not going to kill because it is wrong". it's like a vehicle, morals on their own are simply axioms, ethics are the systems through which these axioms are put into effect in one's life. not necessarily he lives of all people. one can have a personal ethical system.

the motherfucker in your image is pretty much the only interesting anime character ever

Ethics and morals are two different things. Morals are not necessarily ethical. Look it up or something.
In any case what I am saying is not that Asians are more moral. I am saying that they are more socially conscious.

okay, i'm going to assist you. this is the definition of ethics as per google:
moral principles that govern a person's behavior or the conducting of an activity.

do you understand now that you didn't know what ethics are?

also, i would disagree that asians are more socially conscious. the difference is the culturally accepted reaction to social situations. one might seem to be socially unconscious of something in one culture, when in reality, in their own culture, the reaction is simply different. say i don't bow, and instead offer my hand for a handshake. this is an example of both people being courteous according to their culture, however, it could be seen as offensive to either party. often, in fact, westerners are being more socially aware when they forgo their cultural tendency to offer a handshake, and bow in accordance with an asian's culture. that is a great example of how westerners are often quite socially aware and wish to avoid a socially awkward situation.

Because you are applying your western understanding of what responsibility is. Responsibility is accepting the consequences of your actions.
A westerner's way of thinking is more functional:
"If you broke something fix it. Then everything will be alright."
Asians are more about how other people feel.
It doesn't matter what you did. What matter is that somebody "feels" bad because of it.
So your most important task is to indicate to that person that you didn't actually mean to hurt them.
Even in the west if we feel that we hurt somebody's feelings we would have to apologize and only if our apology is accepted will we be allowed to go on. This is common politeness.
Seppuku is just taking this concept of politeness to the extreme. If you hurt somebody's honor then you have to demonstrate to that person that you feel bad about it by being willing to sacrifice your own life. This is just politeness. On the other hand if the other person rejected your sacrifice it would mean that they don't care about your apology so they would be injuring your honor. So accepting seppuku as a form of apology is also a form of politeness.
It's a duty. Not an escape from responsibility.
As weird as it seems to you it's not immaturity. It's just an exaggerated behavior of paying respect because Asians care about respect a lot and their culture developed around that.
Easterners and westerners have different values.

i would happily say that taking someone's emotions so seriously that you would take your own life over it is incredibly juvenile. functionality in survival is a mature human aspect. if i emotionally damage someone, which is inevitable, and act by that juvenile system, i will not be able to sire children. and let us remember that maturity in a human can literally be ascribed to the age of fertility. in fact, when one becomes sexually active and able to reproduce, they "mature". if everyone were running about depending their whole lives on other people's emotions, they would inevitably fail, kill themselves, fail to breed, and be as useless as a juvenile, or one who has not contributed to maturity by siring children.

interestingly enough, the cultural ramifications of this juvenile culture are showing in that the men and women of your newer generations are refusing to breed as they must to retain their society. interesting how when you speak the truth as i have, it can easily be seen throughout a given issue, fractal truths.

It's just a semantic distinction.
The definition of Ethics I find at a quick google search is "the study of morals" or something.
The way I interpret morals vs. ethics is personal guidelines vs. collective guidelines. If you don't think that is Ethics then you are welcome to give another word for that and replace it in my above statements.

>men and women of your newer generations are refusing to breed
This is a natural result of modern economy. You can observe the same trend in civilized modern countries.

i have shown in every possible way what ethics are. it is not a matter of semantics. there is no personal and collective dichotomy between ethics and morals. one can have a personal ethical system, which is made up of moral axioms. this is the proper use of the term. end of story.
i disagree that it's merely economics. sure, you could look at say, england, which is supposedly having the same types of problems, but in reality, it seems that they are outsourcing immigrants to breed with. it seems that japan's juvenile xenophobia is restricting their survival.

If humans developed as social species that is because it gave them functional evolutionary advantage. Maybe there are certain limits to which collectivism is advantageous. In any case from evolutionary perspective you can't say a species is more or less mature, only more or less adjusted.
Asians cultures are defined by their genetics just as well as western.
You can argue if you wish that collectivism is a less advantageous survival strategy and that cultures that are defined by it are less suited for survival.
That doesn't make those people of those cultures less "mature" individually.

I've gone through all the same thoughts.
>are they just immature?
>do they just suck at writing?
>maybe they're shallow?

And then I realized that the entire country cannot possibly be all these things and that it's probably just a difference of culture and language. Japanese certainly aren't a stupid people so it doesn't make sense that there shows/movies are stupid. It's an entirely different perspective from our Western one.

i can tell at this point there is a substantial language barrier, and that no progress can be made despite my clear and effective arguments.i hope some day your understanding of english matures further! farewell.

Have you ever read any serious Japanese literature or films made by internationally revered directors? I feel like you are basing your assumptions on some juvenile media, even the ones made by Western people, most likely some shallow blockbusters.

>there is no personal and collective dichotomy between ethics and morals
OK. If you insist on that definition then it's not ethics I am talking about. I am talking specifically about the distinction between collectivism and individualism. You are free to give me a word for that that doesn't offend you so I can use it because that is what I am talking about.
>i disagree that it's merely economics.
Good. You are free to have your opinions.

>that is a great example of how westerners are often quite socially aware and wish to avoid a socially awkward situation.
It's a great example of how westerners put more significance in functionality rather than protocol. That is not a bad thing but it is not more socially aware either.

Not unreasonable to assume that anime is simply an inferior art form and cannot convey depth to the extent that the japanese culture has to offer.

They probably wonder the same things about Western cultures.

>why are they importing so many african people?
>are they stupid? are they naive?
>maybe they just have different values

>good, you are free to have your opinions
it's not just an opinion, i gave an argument to assist the statement, if you'll take a look.
>a word that doesn't offend
it's not a matter of offense, but rather a matter of words having meanings that one must adhere to, so they can use language as a tool to communicate. ethics doesn't mean that. if you mean the dichotomy between collectivism and individualism, i don't know that there is a term for that. there very well may be. i don't know. it's not ethics. that's for fuck sure.

It could but it most likely never will, it's only about pandering to its escapist audience.
Also there is a certain limit in visual media anyway as to how much can it explore anything philosophy related due to its length and conventions. If you want to study any culture in depth always go for books.

Eh you seem to be coming at this with a wholly Western, individualist way of thinking. The thing is that in Asian society no one gives a fuck about you the individual, only your achievements to the greater whole.

>western media
>little boys cutting their dicks off pretending to be girls
>heroes destroying their own societies
>man what if kami are actually evil and SCIENCE is the way
>man I'm so tortured so edgy but psssh nothing personal kid
>dude FUCK morality
>drugs are so cool

Your values are shit. Your literature is shit. Your media is shit. Your society is shit. Close the base.

this thread is why I love /p/

I have a theory that the japanese way of thinking could be understood through a series of books, at the risk of getting exiled to /wsr/, would you please recommend me something to read?

*this thread is why I love Veeky Forums

I did not know that British are accepting immigrants in order to breed with them? Those liberal values are also a consequence of capitalism.
Japan's birth rate is not declining because of its conservatism but because of modern economics.

If you think that Japanese are going to be destroyed as a nation due to their conservative values aren't British also going to be destroyed as a nation for the opposite reasons of those? What difference does it make?

>what is Futanari
Jap obliterated.

>ten commendments
Basically "don't be a dick"

That is pornography for perverts. You're pushing trannies as NORMAL. You're brainwashing PRESCHOOLERS with that shit. The sooner the West collapses into chaos the better.

ahuh

This is now a degeneracy thread.

This is ART you pleb.

Green symbolizes the loss of nature.

>Do Japanese people have a different school of philosophy and literature than us

Utterly. Western children are taught to advance and improve themselves as much as possible, and to attain the greatest value as an individual. In this way they benefit wider society.

Japanese children are taught to sacrifice everything for their social group, and the only reason to improve yourself is to bring more benefit to your social group. Look at any Shonen, and a core moral is that the characters are always risking death to save their friends / bring glory and respect to their immediate group (or revenge for a dishonour done). By making the ultimate risk / sacrifice (death) for the benefit of those around them, they showcase the purest form of this ideal.

Lol. Why the fuck you watching anime? Go read.

>Western children are taught to advance and improve themselves as much as possible, and to attain the greatest value as an individual. In this way they benefit wider society.

Do you gaijin actually believe the shit that spews out of your mouths?

How is it wrong?

Western children are taught nothing but to destroy themselves and their own society.

>Germany
>Western
Nope, Central European barbarians.

Polytheistic gods in every culture ever?

In theory they are not supposed to be taught that. Any particular insights on what is wrong with our educational system?

True. The guy you're replying to obviously hasn't taken the redpill

There is no education system in the West. I went to university there. What a joke that was. I talked with westerners about their experiences in schools. You have abandoned your children to wolves. Whatever system might have once existed has been thuroughly obliterated. Unless you come to Japan to see our schools I don't think I could even list all the differences to you. There is simply nothing of value left in your society.

Japanese education is on the other side of the crazy curve.

Shame on us not making our children commit suicide because of bullying and stress in school. Also shame on us for not spending our whole life "working" when most of the 12 hour spent on a job is actually only about saving face, doing nothing productive.

No. Japanese education is fine. We don't have kids shooting up heroin in their classes between shooting up their classes. We don't have transvestites graphically showing our children anal sex. We keep our communist teachers on short leashes like the rabid dogs they are. We don't brainwash our kids to hate Yamato or Japan. The children actually learn. The children are actually given a chance. And when they leave there is actually a society that they can join and contribute to. You offer nothing but a wasteland. I've been there. I've seen it. Your failure disgusts me.

I don't think the West is all that different in those respects although the reasons are different.

I never stated I believed it. I stated that it's the default perception of virtue taught to Western youth.

Neither perception of virtue is correct nor wrong. They are simply different.

There is no virtue taught to western youth. Only vice. A terrible corruption has consumed your hearts and you feed it your children.

>I made the assumption that manga and anime are for children
That's because it is.

Take it easy, Muhammad.

It is very different, I've worked at a Japanese company, it is ridiculous how much they only live for their job, regularly working 12-16hours 6days a week and actually get nothing done but they can tell themselves and their bosses that they contribute to some kind of imaginary society where people should have no personal life, only empty slaving away every day.

I had average schools that taught me average curriculum and average technical school that taught me average employment-preparation skills, I've never seen the vice things you are preaching. Sure, school bullying and all that nonsense but nothing you are describing.

Shame on us for not throwing our children to immigrant rape gangs. Shame on us for not pumping our children full of drugs. Shame on us for not murdering our children in the womb and replacing them with foreigners who hate us. Shame on us for not dumping millions of lifetimes of tax dollars into funding the above.

The only reason they are vices is because you are comparing them to your own set of values. Every single community has a different set of values. None of them are correct, not yours nor theirs. There is no true virtue. Only the values which make up different perspectives on what is correct.

Also overtime is of course not paid, you are only doing this out of good will for your "nation", so they can also slave away their whole life while having literally no free time for anything apart from sleeping a few hours every day.
Just look up karoshi, our society is not perfect but the Japanese mentality is not better at all.

Yeah you just brush under the carpet every problem so nobody has to disturb the order, nobody should ever raise any issues, just make it look like everything is perfect while people of every age are suffering every day.

LOL sorry we cut into your valuable time browsing Veeky Forums you lazy longnose.

>being this much of a wagie

Even though Westerners don't nearly work as much the average Westerner is still a wage slave with no significant contribution to society. They might not be as repressed but they are still pretty spiritually poor. There is only an illusion of freedom. The fact is not even Westerners are good at being individualists anymore because modern society is way too complex. It's so much easier to just follow orders.

High schoolchildren here don't even know what marijuana is. Meanwhile your schools need metal detectors to stop your gangs from bringing glocks to protect their crack deals. Think about that.

Your society is objectively inferior by every rubric and will not survive into the next century. Good riddance.

You're right we should start having annual parades where men shit into each other's mouths and keep syringes of Ritalin on hand to inject every child who speaks a little too loudly. Your society is circling the drain and you deserve it.

Yes, there's a mindset that they should live solely for the good of their nation. I'm curious what they'd think of Stirner.

Can't find the reply I want to reply to but anyone is welcome to give me a (You) for this..

So if I'm a psychopathic human being with no conscience or empathy and use people from my own selfish gains rising up to the top of the heirarchical structure only to then use my position at the top to throw crumbs at the lower classes and give back to society.. would I be considered a "moral" (or "ethical) person in your eyes.

That is the american archetype, look at ironman for example, a billionaire playboy who fucks around and does everything to his own gain only to then use the power gained by that behavior to benefit his society.. you would never find such a character as a hero in Japanese culture - that would be the antagonist, the institutionalized but strong, charismatic but flawed hero takes ironman on and shows him the way to be true and good and humble to the society at large.

Hmm

In moral reasoning intent is important.
It would be moral if you do it because you think it is right.
It would be ethical (although that other user argues that there is no distinction) if you think it is right because other people think is it is right.
Note that neither being moral, nor being ethical are enough to make you a nice person.
If you do it just because you enjoy playing around it's just a hobby.

>would I be considered a "moral" (or "ethical) person in your eyes.

I would be inclined to say no. The theory is that you rise to the top and gain the benefits of it, it's because it's a reward for the benefit you provided to society. Of course, many don't follow the ideal. Gaining mass profit while subverting the 'helping others' part is not follow the correct path of virtue, assuming we're the ideas of western capitalism.

> ironman
Tony Stark started off as an anti hero. He was intentionally designed to be very flawed as a hero, he's popular because he breaks the mold and it ends up making him more relatable.

This topic probably already had at least a couple thought out replies, but anyway, I feel like I should emphasize on the one I just quoted.

The Japanese and quite some other eastern people as well, had their philosophy indeed built very differently from ours. For starters, I think I can more or less safely claim "West" people were often concerned with unity of things, or at least conflicting sets of duality that do have a middle ground inbetween. This has been around since the Greeks with dialectic, Plato's ideal, etc. Eastern philosophy on the other hand (and only insofar as I know it, but I'm even less of a scholar than for the case of western), has a LOT of focus on plurality and disparity. The earliest metaphysics I can think of, has plenty of concepts such as claiming every single object and being has a single unique soul. At the same time, our Platonic idealism somehow ended up on mass egotism and narcissism, whereas the way Nips think of disparity turned them into [quite literally] human cogs to run a great mechanism. Go figure, but that's the earliest difference I can recall anyway.

As for modernity, they still have much of that left inside I think. From working with only dozens at most of Japanese people, even the most non-traditional ones have this strong idea ingrained inside them that they should contribute their small part to something bigger. They know they're a small part of things and what pretension of growing they do have I suspect is western influence. I don't think our brand of social justice, for example, will ever catch up on them because they high key believe wealth inequality, racial superiority and "natural law" matters are just part and parcel of the disparity of life (which, to them, started simultaneously with death and not in a duality, it's the one and same thing rather than two sides of a spectrum, but don't quote me on this and take it for what you will). I think this is one of the reasons they work so much and their media appears to be so weird to us: they are always doing their best (even if they're the best at being the worst!) because they value it no matter how small their contribution is. It's not that they don't have the concept of uselessness, but who they deem useful or not is very different from us, which leads us to close the circle on Tony Stark: in spite of being a "hero", he still has much to learn and is not in the best state he could be at all, and his story by a Japanese oriented person would never end without him becoming a humble, small part of the bigger scheme of life, ever in disparity of the rest, but also combined in synch. Which might sound like New Age shit because that's usually how it sounds when a Western person tries to explain the East brand of metaphysics, me included (sorry).

>Shame on us for not throwing our children to immigrant rape gangs.
>Shame on us for not pumping our children full of drugs.

You're a nation of pedophiles, for who every perversion is ok as long as it's hidden behind mosaics. Kiddie orn was only outlawed recently cos you have an entire industry exploiting eastern european and poor asian girls.

Your country is still unrepentant about it's crimes during WWII especially in vidya, anime and manga. They think the US just dropped the bomb for no reason. Hell, look that recent anime movie "In this corner of the world" where the main character screams about not surrendering to the violence committed by the US but no comment is made about the shit they were doing to the surrounding asian countries.

Always amazes that weebs will always come out the woodwork to defend the nip's honor while shitting on their own country.

>inb4 country has gone to shit

You guys still shit on your own country when talking about WWII

>Kids shooting up heroin in class

As a recovering heroin addict, I can definitively say that it's not at all common for high-schoolers in western countries to do heroin. They certainly do drugs, but its mostlyy sit like weed, "club drugs", psychedelics, prescription medications, etc. Not crack or heroin. That's more so an inner-city/impoverished rural area thing. Of course in the last 2-3 years heroin/opiate use has reached epidemic levels and is indeed bleeding into the suburbs and upper-middle ad upper class neighborhoods, but it's still mostly young adults and up who are using it, not teenagers. My guess would be that your average highschool has only a small handful of heroin users - like literally maybe 5-10. Of course things might be different now, with the current opiate epidemic, but the numbers can't be much higher.

>We don't brainwash our kids to hate Yamato or Japan.

They don't need to, the rest of asia still hates japan.

So killing people and raping children is okay, if I believe it is, or if doing so is a social norm in my culture? Right and wrong don't exist, only social standards of acceptability and personal moral attitudes?

How are your exaggerated ramblings a social norm?

this dude slamming the west isn't necessarily wrong but what i hope he realizes is how utterly dependant and infatuated the japanese are to/with america. if we were in as dire a state as you think we are then dude you are going to be killed by whatever national power moves in to replace us. your women love foreign men because we actually come home from work.

Yes. Right and wrong are purely subjective. Your concept of right and wrong is determined by your values, which for most are based on the society you grew up in.

Take cannibal tribes eating the hearts of their enemies as sacrifice to their god, because they perceived it as just and virtuous to do so to their enemies. If those cannibal tribes were the only society on Earth, then those actions would be uncompromisingly defined as good and right.

For raping children, one could look at to the victor go the spoils. It would be unjust for the warrior who risked his life for victory to not gain suitable reward. If it is virtuous to kill the enemies of your social group, why not pleasure yourself first before doing so?

Can you take a step back from the brink please?

Accepting that people are different than you doesn't mean agreeing with them.

I'm not on the brink of anything. Those are not my values, I'm simply giving examples of cultures which did. If you were raised in those cultures, you too would consider those things good and virtuous. You are the circumstances of your existence.

Nationalism is being killed in western countries, why does this amaze you?

Too bad God and reason exist.

And if you weren't born in a degenerate culture you wouldn't be a liberal faggot.

The idea of America here is literally 1950s America. I was astonished when I went there. You people aren't even human anymore.

>Too bad God and reason exist.
pfff
Classic. I should have known.

Oh wow only 10 of the kids are hardcore junkies and the rest are just doing pot and party drugs what an accomplishment.

Pedophilia is punished by law here. But it hasn't turned into a hysterical moral panic like it is in the West where men aren't allowed out in public unless accompanied by a woman to restrain them from reaping children, but not a woman one or more years younger, since being attracted to women in their early 20s makes you a baby fucker, meanwhile Muslims are raping your children in the street and you just whistle and walk by. You westerners are insane and hypocrites and evil and stupid.

>Dude all cultures and values are equally valid and above judgement
>except those based on God and reason because I don't personally believe in those things

Fuck off you incoherent imbecile.

Stop role playing.