>Joyce once said that he had "put in so many enigmas and puzzles that it will keep the professors busy for centuries arguing over what I meant", which would earn the novel immortality
Honestly, guys, is this really worthwhile? It seems more a pretentious thing wrote to not fall into oblivion. He got what he planned. Why should I read something that need a subsequent academic explanation?
>Honestly, guys, is this really worthwhile?
Yes. Yes it is.
Just read the thing.
It's so good that even if you only get what is at surface level you'll love it.
Would you say the book could still be experienced through a translation (spic btw) or is too much of the greatness of the book tied to its use of the english language. if not ill get an english version but reading in a foreign language is a little bit of a chore
It couldn't hurt to try. Honestly most user here want to find any pretense they can to avoid reading a book instead of simply trying it for themselves. The only thing you have to lose is a bit of time, and chances are you would've spent that time shitposting anyway.
Because it is meant to be enjoyed.
Joyce is so lyrical that I'd recommend reading it in the original English
That's the main reason i havent read it yet
I mean how pseud ist this Premise?
Hur dur i'll write a book that noone understands just so people think im deep
Its a book for pseuds written by a pseud
why don't you read it and find out? hahahah you're basing your opinions on this book based entirely off of second hand information (opinions), the irony here being your entirely pseud lambasting of something you simply assume is pseudo
i must conclude that your brain is simply epic
Ulysses is impossible to translate, you must definitely read it in original.
define possible to translate
How do you translate "ineluctable modality of the visible: at least that if no more, thought through my eyes. Signatures of all things I am here to read, seaspawn and seawrack, the nearing tide, that rusty boot. Snotgreen, bluesilver, rust: coloured signs. Limits of the diaphane. But he adds: in bodies. Then he was aware of them bodies before of them coloured. How? By knocking his sconce against them, sure. Go easy. Bald he was and a millionaire, maestro di color che sanno. Limit of the diaphane in. Why in? Diaphane, adiaphane. If you can put your five fingers through it, it is a gate, if not a door. Shut your eyes and see."
'Inelutável modalidade do visível, ao menos isso se não mais, pensado por meus olhos'.
It doesn't even lose much faggot, and that's fucking portuguese.
what pretentious babble
glad I never read it
Det synligas obönhörliga modalitet: åtminstone det, om inte mer, tänkt genom ögonen. Alltings signaturer är jag kommen för att avläsa, fiskrom och tång, tidvattnet som närmar sig, en rostbrun känga. Snorgrönt, blåsilver, rostbrunt: färgade tecken. Det diafanas begränsningar. Men, tillägger han: hos kroppar. Alltså var han först medveten om dem som kroppar, sedan som färger. Hur då? Genom att dunka skallen mot dem, förstås. Ta det lugnt. Skallig var han och miljonär, maestro di color che sanno. Det diafanas begränsningar hos. Varför hos? Diafan adiafan. Om man kan köra in sina fem fingrar är det en grind, annars är det en dörr. Blunda och see.
So you have taken one quote and decided that it not only represents the author's complete and definitive description of his book, but also states the whole of his reason for writing it. Why should I tell you anything?
What do I need to read before I read this?
Here's the offical list of everything you need to read before Ulysses:
A brief history of Ireland
Dubliners
A portrait of the artist as a young man
James joyce by richard ellmann
Hamlet
The odyssey
The bible
Hero with a thousand faces
Paradise lost
faust
Don quixote
Grimma fairy tales
sound and the fury
The sun also rises
Infinite jest
The 48 laws of power
Hittchhikers guide to the galaxy
House of leaves
Game of thrones
The electric koolaid acid test
Fear and loathing in las vegas
Tao te ching
Bossypants by tina fay
Pulp fiction: the screenplay
1000 movies to see before you die
Winslow homer: paintings
The letters of wolfgang amadeus mozart
The bradygames final fantasy 7 strategy guide
Ideally his earlier work and knowledge of the literary scene at the time, if not knowing well
>not reading it in ancient greek
This is the greatest read ever.
Portrait of the artist as a young man, that's it. You might as well start with Dubliners anyway.
Hamlet is optional if you don't remember it.
Iliad+Odyssey are even less essential. You won't get anything more out of chasing allusions to these.while reading than by looking up the schema after reading.
off topic but does anybody know any good contemporyar irish novels / story collections?
north or south tbqh
Even joyce himself said that naming the chapters after the odyssey was a mistake and should be ignored
on topic but Dubliners
Literal Dubliner here, this is what I've read and enjoyed for the most part:
Donal Ryan - The Spinning Heart
Colin Barrett - Young Skins
Thomas Morris - We Don't Know What We're Doing
Oisin Fagan - Hostages
Sara Baume - Spill Simmer Falter Wither
Sally Rooney - Conversations With Friends
There's also a book by Sam Coll called Abode Of Fancy but I cba to read it. I have to say on the whole Irish lit's in a very good place. I just lived over in London for a few years and the shite they're churning out is pretty poor in comparison.
oh and Rob Doyle - Here Are The Young men is alright. Gonna read his short stories soon probably.
why it was? what joyce said about it?
>impossible to translate
>Joyce himself worked on translating it into French
just because he thought it was passe later on, that doesn't stop the Odyssey parallels from being vital to the structure of the book
>If you can put your five fingers through it, it is a gate, if not a door.
Lewd.
>The bradygames final fantasy 7 strategy guide
Okay I chuckled
thalatta thalatta!
>Sally Rooney
Is she good or a meme? I'm loathe to spend money on contemporary authors most of the time, but the Rooney hype has me curious.
Keked and checked
I'm doing a study abroad in Ireland this summer, and we are reading a number if contemporary and canon stuff.
For interesting prose we read Solar Bones by Mike McCormack. Reading Angela's Ashes by Frank McCourt. People love Roddy Doyle, for good reason.
At a certain point, literature can be so vague about meaning that you're better off sitting hands folded and just using your imagination, no book needed. This is not one of those books. It plays well straight as well as having hidden meaning.
It contains a lot of literary references that you wouldn't get unless you are well-read. It references most of the Western literary canon.
>seems like a thing he wrote to secure his immortality
and the fact that so far he has succeeded with flying colors should be a clue, eh?
cuckolding?
Yes it's really really fucking good.
The academics of the book are optional.
>Sally Rooney
Opinion immediately discarded.
Within one or two centuries English will have changed so much that people will have trouble understanding the guidebooks.
«нeoтвpaтимyю мoдaльнocть видимoгo: пo кpaйнeй мepe, ecли нe бoльшe, пpoдyмaйтe мoи глaзa». Пoдпиcи вceх вeщeй, кoтopыe я здecь читaю, мopcкиe и мopcкиe cлeды, пpиближaющийcя пpилив, этoт pжaвый бoтинoк. Snotgreen, bluesilver, pжaвчинa : Цвeтныe знaмeния, лимиты диaфaнa, нo oн дoбaвляeт: в тeлaх, тoгдa oн знaл o них тeлa, пpeждe чeм oни oкpaшивaлиcь. Кaк? Cвepнyв нa них cвoй бpa, yвepeннo, лeгкo. Лыcый oн был и миллиoнep, мaэcтpo Di color che sanno. Лимит диaфaнa дюймa Пoчeмy в диaфaнe, aдиaфaнe. Ecли вы мoжeтe пpoпycтить пять пaльцeв, этo вopoтa, ecли нe двepь, зaкpoйтe глaзa и пocмoтpитe »
You just translate it. There's actually very little emphasis on wordplay/puns/alliteration here that'll be lost in translation.
There's an entire chapter mirroring the birth and growth of the english language through different styles of different English writers, how the hell would you translate this into antoher language? If you'd translate it you would see different styles sure, but they wouldn't make sense as the styles are specific to authors, times and places.
Second: in certain chapters certain words in certain places are supposed to stary with certain letters. Think of the S, P, B, M at the start or the S at start and finish.
And then there's a chapter that is all about the rythem of the text,treating the text like music with different elements weaving in togheter like voices in a choir.
I would personally only read a translation Joyce himself wrote.
i have read it in portuguese (the best translation to portuguese, or at least brazilian portuguese) and english, and I have to say, even before I read it in english, when I finished it in portuguese I already knew that it was the greatest book I had ever read, though I enjoyed it even more in english (being the second time I was reading it helped a lot though). there are certain things like puns that are definitely not possible to translate without changing a bit of the text, but it can certainly be enjoyed. one very important thing is to find a good, serious translations. most censor the 'bad' words, and that is a HUGE piece of the work, and without these words and dirty jokes it becomes rather dull.
but if you are willing, I actually recommend reading a translation and in the original, I did because I was curious to see it from "another point of view"
typical "I won't even try to read it because it is big and because chinese-cartoon-imageboard say it is a meme, so I am just going to rest ignorant and pretend I don't want to read so I don't even have to try".
Did you just use Google Translate?
William Trevor - Fools of Fortune
Heт, aнoн, я cвoбoднo гoвopю пo-pyccки.
I thought Joyce put the puzzles in there just because he thought professors and academics were pretentious for trying to find deep meaning in books?
You need a very good understanding of the English Literary canon and ancient literature and philosophy to be able to understand it
Had to read this part of the book about 5 fucking times and I still have no idea what he's trying to say, this whole chapter was extremely confusing
>they wouldn't make sense as the styles are specific to authors, times and places
just because you're reading a translation doesn't mean you don't know anything about english literary history
>Think of the S, P, B, M at the start or the S at start and finish
yeah that really makes or breaks the book
>And then there's a chapter that is all about the rythem of the text,treating the text like music with different elements weaving in togheter like voices in a choir
good thing translators are allowed to be good writers then
Life is too short to read Ulysses.
Bruh it's beautiful and funny at the same damn time on most every page. Will make you cry, laugh, and squirm, in three consecutive sentences. Get Gifford's annotations and only consult them when you are at what seems like a dead end.
Seriously though, if you like hard books this one is hellof fun.
Maybe that's what your reddit brain thought when you read his words.