Vineland

Is it really that bad?

Who said it was?

i think wikipedia says something about critics being underwhelmed

read it, let us know afterwards your thoughts . no sarcasm intended .

I read it and thought it was good, first 100-150 pages especially. After that it gets off-track and goes in odd directions so I think people give up or pan it as a result. It does get difficult. Really good writing within it though, gets a worse rap than it deserves.

>expecting pynchmeme to be good

It's not Prime Pynchon. It's still not written like pynchon-lite. Not worthless, but not the book I'd recommend someone start with, unless they have a strong interest in the US Reagan era (who does?). Not as funny as Inherent Vice.

The middle section is really retarded. But the beginning and end are quite good. Inherent Vice is definitely better.

no I personally love it, it's just a step down from Gravity's Rainbow so it disappointed a lot of people when it was published -- understandably.

it's closer to V. or GR than Inherent Vice or Bleeding Edge.

it's meh

>inb4 >meh

i think that's the case for most post GR Pynchon. Hell, theres some really good writing in Bleeding Edge

>Pynchon takes on Reagan
This just moved up in my queue

I like it a lot, especially the flash backs to the 60s and the militant college leftist stuff
Zoyd Wheeler is prime Pynchon

Reagan himself is really not that important a character imo

having read Inherent Vice first the Gordita Beach parts were neat

Agreed. Given the amount of time that had passed since GR, as well as the easy-going nature of Vineland, it was bound to be hated. I got the impression that Pynchon was more concerned with crafting sentences in Vineland than developing the story. The story isn't great but there are so many small elements and traces of craft-honing the casual reader will pass over. A bunch of super long sentences. And even though I gave up on Bleeding Edge about 100 pages in, I also agree; it seems like a special kind of bad though, so I don't think Vineland deserves to be lumped in with (not implying you were doing that, but it's often at the bottom with it).

Even so, Tommy's brand of wacky hijinks set in the Reagan 80s sounds like a rollicking load of fun

the 80s comprise the frame narrative while a lot of the middle of the book is 70s (and earlier, like 40s)

Zoyd is prime Pynchon and there wasn't enough of him in Vineland. I hated just about every scene with DL-san, fuck me that was cringe reading. I'm a huge Pynchon fan and I'd say that middle section is the worst he's ever written.

BE and IV are very good, the latter I rank up with MD and GR.

what about AtD?

It's fucking great. My first Pynchon. Read it cover to cover sitting at the bar of an A'dam coffeeshop with a spliff in one hand and an Amstel in the other.
It's not V or GR, but it sure beats 49 and IV.
Only reason it gets slated is because some sadsack suicidal scribblers expected the second coming but had to make do with humanity.

Gravity's Rainbow
Mason & Dixon
Against the Day
Inherent Vice

That's how I'd rank the top 4, but Mason & Dixon could flip spots with Against the Day, depending on my mood.

you must not have read V.

I rank V. as equal to GR

You're right, it's the only one I haven't read actually. Your post makes me want to read it sooner now.

me too. V and GR feel like companion works. one about pynchon's present one about his past. (thought both of course jump through their own pasts presents and futures)

yes i can't recommend it highly enough, especially if you enjoyed GR

Is the V. reading group still happening?

GR is probably my favorite novel of all time, so I've been excited to get to V. I tend to try and spread 9ut the authors I read, though, so I've been focusing on others. Hope to get to it by the end of next month.

It's underway on the WASTE IRC