What created God?

What created God?
>muh first cause is god
But why?

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read Descartes and use "search" option. Sage

God is outside of our perception of time and space. None of our laws or rules apply to him.

What created mathematical objects?
Checkmate atheists

humans created math

youtube.com/watch?v=RlMMeqO7wOI

And god gave humans consciousness.

Essentially, things can be placed into two categories: Necessary and Contingent.

What is an example of something contingent? Well, any one of us. 100 years ago, none of us existed. The world was able to go on. There was no NECESSITY that any one of us actually ever came into existence. In fact (think about this!) it would have been possible for billions and billions (and trillions and trillions) of people to come into existence, but it was never necessary that YOU would exist. And yet here you are, lucky you.

Here is another fact about contingent things: every contingent thing requires an explanation for its existence. So for you, for example, you came from your parents. They came from their parents, etc. Contingent things do not happen without explanation. If you go to the zoo and see a hippo, it's not because it fell from the sky into a cage. It came from other hippos and was placed there. So the key idea here is that contingent things require an explanation for where they came from. They do not just pop into existence on their own.

But here's the thing: as you begin to look out into the world, you realize that all objects are by nature contingent. The earth doesn't logically NEED to exist. It came into existence around 4.6 billion years ago, but for most of the life of the universe it wasn't here. But if you look even more beyond, you notice this fact staring you in the face: EVERYTHING in the universe is contingent. Every single atom, all of "time" which is so intimately bound to movement and energy, the entirety of the universe is contingent. Which is another way of saying that there is no LOGICAL necessity to the universe's existence.

So if the whole universe is contingent, you are left asking where it came from (since all contingent beings require an explanation for their existence). So you are left with two possibilities, each with their own difficulties:
1. The universe came from some other contingent thing
2. The universe came from (was created by) something that is by definition necessary.

The one thing we cannot say is that the universe just "came from nothing." Something cannot come from nothing. A hippo cannot materialize and fall from the sky into a cage at the zoo.

1. If the universe came from another contingent being, then THAT contingent being's existence must be explained. It CANNOT be an infinite regress of universes or an infinite cycle of universes (I will prove this in a moment)
2. The only other option is that the universe came from a being that is necessary. And absent the necessary being's prior existence, there would be no contingent beings; there would be nothing.

So that's the essence of the proof: The whole universe is contingent. All contingent beings require an explanation for their existence (they must come from something). Since the universe cannot come from an infinite regress of contingent beings, a necessary Being must have created it. That Being we call God. QED

This is a LITERATURE board.
Are you the dude of 108 IQ or something? (delet those threads!)

>he gives the opinion of a physics instead of a philosopher of science/mathematics
please try again, this aint reddit boy.

Nothing, God has always been. He is not created therefore he cannot die, he is unborn, eternal.

People in 2017 think the cosmological argument is sound?

God willed itself into existence.

I know, it's not the flashiest explanation but it gets the job done.

>God doesn't exist, therefore nothing can exist since everything is created by God
>Thus nothing exists to prevent God from spontaneously existing out of nothing and creating everything

Checkmate atheists.

God isn't real.

Awesome question, cool thought experiment. I had a blast thinking about it for a while.

I'll send you the bill.

This entire argument hinges on there being such a thing as "nothing" and for this nothing to be the initial state of affairs. Neither of which assumptions has been proven or rationally justified.

>Something cannot come from nothing
What do you know? You think that you can use neat little linguistic tricks, simple toys, to derive universal truths? Seriously, what do you know? The universe could be anything, including being beyond our comprehension. Nobody knows shit about what's going on. Keep fooling yourself.

sculpture. it's since moved on to publishing.

the demiurge you fucking idiot are you this new?

1) What's to say that the universe itself isn't necessary? The objects you list (from Earth to atoms) are just arrangements of the matter of the universe. What's to say that matter isn't as eternal as a god would be?

2) The necessary step doesn't have to be a being. That's an entirely different attribute of the necessary you have yet to demonstrate is required.

If "God" exists, it's most likely just an event that occurred. It's our term for the event which caused the beginning of our universe. It could be a particle, a mathematical equation, anything like that. It's very unlikely to be a sentient being.

God is the self-subsistent uncreated and eternal being.

God is certainly not "sentient" if you mean that He has corporeal senses. However, God as the prime mover holds all things in being, and in that sense is most intimately aware of them. Our own acts of understanding through our intelligence, and of perceiving through our senses, are caused by God - making Him more intimately aware of them than we ourselves are.
>Shall not God search out these things : for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

Another way of thinking of it: God's knowing a thing is the very cause of its existence. If God did not know it, it would not exist; this is true because all things exist in, and are caused by, the Mind of God.

>God isn't real.
True. He's transcendent. Super-real.

nothing is real, y'all in a simulation

>(I will prove this in a moment)
>never actually does, uses circular reasoning instead

Getting real tired of your shit, René.

What I don't understand is why the universe can't be the self-necessary element.

What created God's creator in that case?

>I have no idea where those thunders come from therefore it must be the manifestation of the Gods

>I have no idea why this plague is killing us all therefore it must be God who's punishing us

>I've no idea how the universe came into existence therefore it must've been created by God

That argument is based upon the theology of St. Thomas Aquinas, which is really just a direct appropriation of Aristotelian physics, which doesn't give any definitive answer to the beginning of 'motion' as we understand it; or, in this case, "God".

A more compelling argument is being made in the modern sciences: theguardian.com/education/2005/apr/14/research.highereducation1

>"Physicists propose several options for the future of the universe, but most dramatic is the possibility that the current acceleration is the prelude to a period of contraction. The "big crunch" which followed would create new matter and radiation, triggering another big bang, and a rejuvenated universe would emerge from the fireball like a phoenix from the flames."
>If this theory is correct, it could help to explain one of the puzzles of cosmology - how the galaxies, stars, and planets came into being.

So, still no 'God' answer, but getting closer.

Man created God, and God created man.
Does this help OP.

>Man created God, and God created man.
really makes you think

gnostics were basically the terence mckennas of early christianity, getting into fucked up states via extreme meditation practices or ergotism and pulling ideas out of their asses