ITT

Have you ever asked your girlfriend to choose anything lad?

also, would you guys say its wrong for men to be feminine? lately my friends, im a young man, are very much into a ultra, almost aggressive masculinity - and i find something mischievous in me which resists this pure, total identification -
this masculine identification is tangled up with nation etc...(yes they're alt-right, and horrible to be around) whenever i think of my friends i think of this oscar wilde quote

haha yea that's true - shopping with her is an afternoon affair where with me its a five minute thing

How is fitzgerald's prose feminine? what the fuck. I would have listed Henry James or John Ruskin

I was more making fun of your post than giving a serious answer.

>not disagreeing, or provoking...really just confused

That's what it means.

I second James

I don't think it's wrong at all for a man to be feminine, but it is distinct. In fact, I would say that in reality (and I may get in trouble with some people here for this part), I believe that feminine and masculine are not necessarily tied to a gender at all. They are just two different personality types, where it happens that the majority of feminine types are women and the majority of masculine types are men.

>current year levels off the charts

It's pretty.

that is provocative...i'd have to say that definitely they'd be tied to gender, but for some variety or ambiguous eccentricity to exist is fine with me - now the question is, why is that fine? why should men not be men and women, women...this is a question that puzzles me, I believe that they should be but im not a purist...purists kill, they're utopian, I feel

The Report of the Week

will you be my gf (male)

this reminds me - in this our era of strange overblown sex politics, where's room for a meek reader, a "bisexual" fellow who would never announce himself as such, but yet is not ashamed?

remove "but" from that, it's just "yet is not ashamed"

is that a yes, or...

it's a yes!

L O N D O N
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New York

>I believe that feminine and masculine are not necessarily tied to a gender at all.
>it happens that the majority of feminine types are women and the majority of masculine types are men.
>not necessarily tied to a gender at all

Lmao "it just happens that gendered behaviour based on gender is observable in nature, doesn't mean gendered behaviour is tied to gender though!"

What's it like being so intentionally out of touch that you btfo yourself?

>it is not necessarily tied to a gender
>but it typically is
>not necessarily
I don't see where the problem is. Can you even read anything besides /pol/ infographics?

Read milo faggot. You sound like /leftypol/

I always saw couples as two halves of the same whole, the most traditional pairing being a masculine man and a feminine woman.

As I get older though I tend to notice more 'androgynous' couples where the man isn't overly masculine and the woman isn't totally feminine. For better or for worse they tend to be more egalitarian.

It's a hyperfemine trait from docility. Just like irresponsiblity is a hypermasculine trait from assertiveness

You're a fool. It's biology and universal social constructs. You need to provide evidence for a ridiculous claim. I can't wait until we have sharia in the west so you faggots can live in fear again and I won't have to hear this poisonous bullshit

these things sometimes seem impossible to know - and even if we accepted the large sweeping scientific and historical claims, it'd still be strange to make judgments about individuals on that basis...i think hearkening back to "caveman times" might be too simplistic, or be a study in confirmation bias - although i agree w you about those traits

I.e this tantrum here. Over exaggerated assertiveness makes you irresponsible and hence you look like a child instead of a man.

So Fitz, James, Mishima. Who else?

my diary desu

or not impossible to know, but difficult to apply - in an age where there's more ambiguity about the emphasis on gender

We can know of some broad traits because we can study how society expects the genders to act. Women are socialised, for instance, to do the communication work in the family. Think about how much time your mum speaks to your relatives on the phone compared to your dad. It's not to say these are immutable and inherent but just that st this time there are traits that are attributable to gender.

He's right though. Weak people like yourself need to be culled. You shouldn't even exist in the first place. If there is, and I hesitate to say this, one potential good in a future Islamic Europe and white minority America whites will be forced to fight their way out of, it's that your kind will not make it to the other side.

>referring to yourself as he so it looks like people agree with you
Nice

lmao dodged the agrument like you dodge the responsibilities of manhood

Hypermasculinity won't return with Islam. In Arabic and Persian cultures it's masculine to hold hands with other men and grow/arrange flowers. It's gay in these cultures to get swole and show off your muscules. Either way hypermasculinity will die out

yea I see
maybe it's best to say that there are some inherit differences - and that these are typically built upon, but that now theyre being challenged, for whatever reason - i hesitate to say though that the society wholly creates the woman...or maybe the concept of a social construct has just been ruined for me by the far left

unacknowledged, tempered, practical post

oops ya spoke to soon, better luck next time kiddo

I think you're confusing me with another user. You never gave me an argument. I was just using that post to illustrate why unregulated docility/assertiveness is bad

This guy

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. You must have no concept of how nature works. You are an aberration existing in a rare time of plenty at the end of a degenerate and dying empire.

Two different people. You (you)d me only once

im in good company

It's true. Go to Kabul or Tehran for yourself. You'll see men holding hands and Persian flower arranging by men

underrated

explain exactly why he's wrong, i want to know your line of thinking

I was adding this kind fellow to your list
Easy mistake.

Social constructs are the only traits we can know for certain. Until they find the docile gene which reproduces at a larger rate in women than men then inherently biological gender traits are a bit hard to falsify

That's not the part I'm arguing with. I'm well aware that low status inbred men fuck guys, but they also rape white girls and will thus have to be removed.

Explain why masculinity isn't going to die out? Surely I shouldn't have to entertain such a stupid proposition.

What you call masculinity and the current conception of masculinity acted out in a hyper way are two different statements. I understand anti intellectualism is good for trad men but please learn to read better

he isn't saying it'll die out, i dont think. i read it as him saying that a large part of what we consider to be naturally masculine, or feminine is constructed by a society, and anyway if thats your reading of it, yes entertain such a stupid proposition, you're on a terrible thread on Veeky Forums, you've got time

Scott... easy on the drink.

There's no difference, you fool. Masculinity is a natural state. Hypermasculinity is a heightened state of that brought about when, say, inbred arabs start taking over your neighborhood as is happening in Europe. The opposite of what you're saying is going to happen. But I know you're some sick delusional twink who watches tranny porn. You aren't normal, nor is what you think normal, even if our present culture tells you it is. Like I said, you are an aberration brought about through circumstances that won't last much longer.

I think this is actually a pretty good thread all things considered. There's a debate, but it's actually a bit civil (or at least professional) and somewhat related to the OP.

It's biological. Are you guys really this stupid? Your sex was not constructed by society, that's absurd. Things have been the way they are for millennia, you think these kooky ideas that have come out just recently are going to change that? Please...

Henry James. There's an old joke about Edith Wharton was a masculine version of the former.

Herman Bang
Antoine de Saint-Exupéry
Oscar Wilde
Alvaro de Campos (pessoa)
Kafka

A natural state? Prove it. Which gene(s) are the masculine ones? And at what rate to they reproduce in males compared to females? Also you have no idea that Arab masculinity is quite different to your masculinity. Just like the Greeks, it's not gay to have pederast relationships with the other things I mentioned. I also don't watch porn so eh

i don't accept that it was constructed by society - but I do think that a lot of what is synthetic is passed for natural. the other guy seems to say that your statements about bio are not falsifiable

last Q, what would you say that natural foundation can/should mean to a contemporary person, who is somewhat estranged from nature...though nature does often reassert herself

Go for Gore Vidal

A natural state? Prove it. Which gene(s) are the masculine ones? And at what rate to they reproduce in males compared to females? Also you have no idea that Arab masculinity is quite different to your masculinity. Just like the Greeks, it's not gay to have pederast relationships with the other things I mentioned. I also don't watch porn so eh

I was gonna say Isherwood, but I reckoned his tone is more bitchy and objective, as opposed to the definitions put forward in this thread.

Good posts, reddit gold for all of you

If masculinity has not changed from all that time then you must be a faggot for not taking a prepubescent boy and fucking him and raising him to be a real man then or were ancient Greek men not masculine?

You live in Marxist fairyland. I'm sorry this was done to you, and that you are so weak that you don't understand where the ideas you believe in came from and why they're being promoted. You couldn't in any other time in history than right now, and right now won't last forever, so enjoy it. Hope you can see the origins of these lies and change one day.

There's just a natural state. I fell into these Marxist traps too, everyone does. But when you mature you realize this stuff is simple. Men and women are very different and that's good -- that's how it's supposed to be. I guess I don't know what you mean by "estranged from nature" though ... are you just a guy with low T whose confused? If so, you would feel much different, and normal, if you started lifting weights and getting your T levels up with zinc etc. There are a lot of reasons why men don't act like men anymore, why we've been weakened, but there are countermeasures that are better and healthier than simply accepting it.

Every society can fall into degeneracy. The Greeks don't excuse your degenerate behavior and sick attitude.

Ahh so only 20th c. Masculinity is not degenerate, gotcha. I'm also waiting for your biological proof btw. Put up or shut up. Volkicsh spirit isn't proof user.

Linguistic experts, who have studied this, believe that becoming a masculine or femine man generally depends upon the environment you grew up in. Think about it, if you're brought up by a caring, squeaky-voiced mother whom you grow to deeply admire, then you're much more likely to emulate them, even down to details such as voice and mannerisms. That's why someone like Gore Vidal, who was actually born in Westpoint and read to blind senator grandfather, could be the type who had assfucked hundreds of dudes by the time he was twenty-five and still act like a Roman patrician. By contrast, someone like Truman Capote was brought up, I believe, by a single mother, so it's not that surprising that he would act as he did fully grown. It's not a gay or straight thing- you can be straight as a ruler and still shamelessly mince around- it's an upbringing thing.

Oh and I'm also saying there are very clear differences between men and women and that's only bad in their extreme as per my first post so your muh Marxism memes won't work here

I tend to agree w the common thought that you forward here, the "just is"...I would classify myself as manly enough...however as I say, I do think that as rule men are men women women, and ought to behave as such, but i do not seek to squelch exceptions to rules - in short, i dont hate the gay, and i don't think aggression is one of the more sanguine elements of masculinity, even if in its passive and condescending mode, as you apply it

Human psychology is much less simple than you make it out to be. Of course enviroment is relevant, but you're not going to turn out the way your primary caretaker did.

and if we accept masculinity totally let's remember that we accept the human man, a deeply flawed creation - don't make an idol of masculinity - masculinity to an end...Aristotle etc You-die-moaning-yah?

The biological proof is in everything. You need to accept that you are a degenerate freak justifying perversions a corrupted society has normalized to broken people. What threat are you in this state? That's why you were made into what you are, because you pose no threat as a low T beta weirdo who babbles about pseudo science online and justifies squeezing what little testosterone you have out of your dick 5 times a day. Only you can make the decision to change. Start taking zinc and crawl out of your perverted hole. You know it's not natural and you know it's not right so fix yourself.

>babbling about pseudo science while criticising someone else for doing the same

Biology is not pseudo science, as much as you want to pretend it is.

That's right, you got no proof because they haven't been able to find gender specific genes. Your done. Nice try though.

Actual biology isn't. Your understanding of it is.

I'm asking for biological proof. So we're talking about the same science buddy

All of your genes are sex specific, that's why everything about men and women is different. Who are you kidding here? I hope you don't really believe this stuff. You need to accept that something is wrong with you and try to fix it. Maybe I'm being harsh, I don't know what kinds of issues you have, but I know you are dwelling in some bizarre reality that allows you to justify your behavior and imbalances. And it is sad that we live in a sick society that now encourages this shit.

Then link the science.

I don't think you understand how biology works. Do you have a penis? Then you're a man. Do you have a vagina? Then you're a woman. That's how this works.

Lol you have no idea what we're talking about huh? Gender traits aren't explained by genitals. Just like addiction traits are explained by genitals. How does a penis affect behavourial traits? If it's that simple then link the genetic studies to back you up.

I know. I was just trying add to the argument that there isn't a camp gene.

he's more socratic than marxist - he's asking why your assumption valid and you can only come up with "because I assumed it, and so did everyone else"...even if you're right you've got to understand why you're right in a more articulate way

So you have a penis but think you're a woman? Is that what we're dealing with here?

>What is hormones

There most certainly are, the same way there's an angery gene which have been bred out of horses and bred further into some dogs.

No ... this is the end result of Marxism. It's people thinking that things are whatever they want them to be, when things are just the way they are.

No. I think I'm a man. We're dealing with you having no proof and projecting or some shit. No one has denied men and women are different. Behavourial traits are not the same discussion as gender debates you retard.

no...it's a fairly fundamental principle of the socratic method - question everything, especially those things that "just are" justice just is justice, truth just is truth, you think that would fly by socrates?...c'mon man, take some T, read some socrates, understand your assumptions, which can be a validating process, so that you don't do them the disservice youre doing them now

If you get pumped full of estrogen you're going to act like more like a woman, but that doesn't change the fact that you're a man. And if you really think you're a woman due to such an imbalance, natural or not, then you're probably mentally ill. This is not complicated.

Why are you on lit if "things are just the way they are"? I thought reading was for the curious. Is this the volk power lvl? Very underwhelming if so