Muh Chesterton

What does this mean? Like more convoluted analogy?

Much as I love Chesterton, I will give you that. The whole "heresy is like insanity" analogy in the first part of Orthodoxy really infuriates me.

it's "WE WUZ AGRARIAN FARMERS" for people who didn't like modernity

It's basically agrarian communism organised along hierarchical structures.

I don't see how that's a response to anything I said.

>edgy fascists
Nigga what the fuck are you talking about? How the fuck is he appealing to fascists?
He was a bit of a crackpot, but so was Roald Dahl (Dahl moreso), and people love him. I'll give you stupid adventure novel, but his biggest problem is that he's tied to nostalgia.
He was like a big fat elf, maddingly obsessed with nature, tradition, and the past while still having some really good observations and points-all tied up in way too much flowery dialogue.
But just like a lot of threads up at this point, this is bait anyways.

>Chesterton
>fascist
Is this the ebin "anything not center-left global post historical liberalism is fascism (but only if white people do it"?

>anglo-american intellectuals

No one who uses the word "muh" is capable of thought not dominated by cliche. It's like trying to argue with a more retarded JK Rowling.

Anglo-American intellectualism is going extinct because there is nothing of merit left in it, which would explain their divorce from Chesterton.

That isn't fascism you fucking retard. Words have meaning, God you're such a cringelord.

I might be wrong, but I think the term Jeffersonian is apt. Any hierarchical society shouldn't be termed a communism per se.

Seriously, what are some contemporary (still living and released a book post 2010) American 'intellectual' of note?

>Any hierarchical society shouldn't be termed a communism per se.

>He ascribed to a fascist [lol] neo-medieval ideology that called for a return to the land and ethnic identity.
Sounds like my type of author. I will read his works and recommend him to my friends if I like it. Most things marxists hate are good.

I find that incredibly appealing, honestly. It's also probably the only socioeconomic system that's genuinely sustainable. Industrialization comes with a ticking clock.

His ideology is much closer to socialism than fascism tbqh. Check out "Babies and Distributism", which includes this fabulous sentence:

>Until I see a real pioneer and progressive leader coming out with a good, bold, scientific programme for drowning babies, I will not join the movement.

Yeah that's correct. A vanguard party can be used to catalyze global communism, but is of itself uncommunistic.

Start with Man who was Thursday.
It's Veeky Forumscore ans was the inspiration for the vidya Deus Ex.

>pretty sure he didn't think that ethnic groups should be murdered for their race

user, please...

Please what? I sincerely think that though Chesterton thought non-whites were mostly savages and inferior, he didn't think killing them was at all a good thing.

It's a false equivalence. Just because you have fascist beliefs does not mean you want to kill other groups. Fascism is not about killing other people; it's about building up your own country and people and protecting it and them from international elements that try to harm it from within or from without.

That's nationalism. Fascism includes nationalism, but is more than that.

They have a lot of similarities, and neither are about killing other groups. Only the talmud and old testament preach that.

Will do, thanks.

Has there been a fascist society in the 20th century that didn't kill a lot of other groups for racial reasons? Or at least a society that called itself fascist (in before "not real fascism").

Argentina under Peron
Francoist Spain

Franco had a lot of Moroccans in his army, it was very diverse!

I don't believe the Germans killed the jews in gas chambers, and that doesn't even matter for this discussion as the Germans weren't really what is defined as a Fascist anyhow. They were National Socialist, which puts a lot more focus on racial purity and eugenics than Fascism does. Italian Facism didn't focus on race much at all - they argued a unified culture/higher collective vision was more important. Personally, I think both are equally important and go hand-in-hand.

Furthermore, no one has killed more people this past century than Marxism and capitalistic/democratic societies, and capitalistic/democratic America goes on killing and killing various millions of asian and brown folks the world over to this day.

The only fascist society that killed anyone for racial reasons were the Germans, and whether or not the NSDAP was fascist is actually debatable.

Fascism is intrinsically just a merger of State and Corporate power that maintains the structure of Capitalism while rendering the business-owners as government employees rather than totally free actors. There is nothing racist or even violent intrinsic to it, but there's really no reason to actually DO this except to facilitate the mass production of arms and the mass mobilization of troops, so fascist countries tend to be militaristic.

Franco wasn't though, I mean they never invaded anybody and were basically tolerated for decades by the free world despite being fascist as fuck. Spain would be better off if they had never returned to Democracy.

>Fascism is intrinsically just a merger of State and Corporate power that maintains the structure of Capitalism while rendering the business-owners as government employees rather than totally free actors
That doesn't sound right, isn't that basically just modern china?

Yep.

Wtf I love "Communism" now.

What is the essential Chesterton to read?

I reccomend 'Orthodoxy'
Don't read 'the everlasting man'
It is a rather shameful, drunken and outdated attempt to disbunk Darwinism.

>disbunk Darwinism
Not quite, more like a debunking Wells' nihilistic anti-humanism, which it did rather successfully.

Chesterton was a wrong, fat, unfunny adherent of a false religion. His writings are sentimentalist garbage of the lowest order. The fucker looked like he looked, and wore a cape. As such, he was a fedora among Catholics.

Take his aphorisms. He does the same unwitty, unfunny thing, over and over again:

"It seems to me that the trouble with x and y, is that there is not enough y in x. Oh dear me I'm so fat and clever, darling fetch my muumuu I must run an errand now~"

Absolutely interminable.

I will dynamight you

This. His essay on Wells in Heretics is great reading to see the core of the matter.

It was the 1900s, plenty of people wore capes.

>Anglo-American intellectualism
This doesn't exist any longer.

To be fair it isn't exactly hard to destroy Wells, he made some outright terrible arguments; barely anybody has read his stuff outside a couple of his popular fiction novels so they don't know about his obsession with eugenics and cut-throat (literally) social Darwinism.

>ethnic identity.
Gasp! He wanted England to be English!
Good thing he lost and we got your cultureless corporate wasteland instead.

It was absolutely rife and in vogue at the time. Shaw and pretty much everyone held up on plinths by the current intelligentsia had some pretty abominable views.

But Chesterton said nigger in his books a few times so he's fucked.

There's something very depressing about contemporary England.

Kinda deserve it for the two World Wars - or at least the second one.

>except he's right

Dahl only got put into the spotlight because he was a British spy. Just read a book about it, it was surprisingly well written.

England doesn't deserve anything but the British elite class is actually just as bad as the muh imperialism meme makes it out to be

>he was a fedora among Catholics.

I understood this just from reading The Man Who Was Thursday.

>But Chesterton said nigger in his books a few times so he's fucked.
He did? Then he's just my kind of guy. I'll be reading him shortly.

Okay. Franco may not have murdered people because of race, but he's still known for mass killings for political reasons. Peron doesn't have any atrocities himself that I can see, but he's also not noted as a direct fascist.

1) Holocaust denial is a sickness. You don't want to talk about it, that's fine, but it automatically indicates a radical sympathy towards fascism and related ideologies.
2) I would completely agree that Marxism and its children are more evil and effective in their brutality than fascism.
3) America kills too many people in its wars and drone strikes, I would tend to agree. But millions? How do you figure that? Additionally, the biggest thing about fascism and Marxism to me is that it kills its own citizens.

I think that does sound right - but the fact remains that the current neo-fascist movement in America is very closely aligned to the white nationalist/supremacist movements, deliberately echoing what Germany did and looked like.

I'm a really big fan of both Father Brown and The Man Who Was Thursday. His non-fiction is very hit or miss for me, a fairly hardcore Calvinist.

Except for his obsession with "insanity is just hyper rationalism." Just doesn't work for me at all.

Your definition of fascism is retarded, read Eco's "urfascism" (and a history book).

Ecce! Cuck

>hardcore Calvinist doesn't like the theology and philosophy of an Anglican who converted to Catholicism due to loving the mystery and sublimity of Christianity.

I'm utterly shocked.

>fascist
every other sentence he writes is in praise of democracy dumb nigga

post good Chesterton passages

Source?

Pretty surprising, neh?

Does Poortugal under Antonio Salazar count?

>user is still recycling his unfunny post he wrote a year ago which he screenshotted and spammed in every Chesterton-related thread since then but now thinks he can hide it by just copying the text
I see you, you worm.

I don't think so. Conservativism isn't the same as fascism - it's one of the major problems in today's discourse, the failure to understand the difference. On many sides. ;)

Eco's 'Ur-Fascism' is quite possibly the worst thing ever written about fascism. Not surprising considering all the other tripe he puts out. Go read some Ernst Nolte you mong (and a history book).

Heretics, a book wherein he roasted the pop thinkers of the day.

This is from the chapter about Whistler

Eco is probably the worst author when it comes to discussion fascism one can read.

>Ernst Nolte
Based. Daily reminder that the Archipelago Gulag prefigured the Holocaust.

Slavoj ZIzek loves this guy as well, he always talk about his work.

>inb4 Zizek is a crypto-fascist obscurantist

This, but unironically

>Holocaust denial is a sickness. You don't want to talk about it, that's fine, but it automatically indicates a radical sympathy towards fascism and related ideologies.

This is the most Jewish post I have ever read on Veeky Forums, and I'm neither a right-winger nor a Holocaust denier.

Yeah, I know. Would this person say the same thing if someone denied the genocide of the Khoisan people? I know absolutely nothing about the Holocaust and have no political stake in it but it's bizarre how there's an entire industry that's sprouted up around it and how much emphasis is placed on it. And it's not like there isn't intelligent people who are skeptical of the dominant Holocaust narrative like Carlo Mattogno. I think all historical events and narratives are open to revisionism IMO, and the Holocaust shouldn't be magically exempt from that. I'm not interested in politics but if I was a right-winger I would place a lot of emphasis on historical revisionism as regards WW2, and there's already a wealth of scholarship to be investigated as far as this goes.

>just bought Orthodoxy
What am I in for?

"Christianity is personally fullfilling therefore it is %100 true and people who disagree are idiots"

Though he has a delightful writing style and if you are on the cusp of converting or want affirming literature is p. good.

It's hard to imagine that the retardation of people such as Wells was taken seriously at the time so it makes some of Chesterton writings seem too angry and tryhard.

You must bear in mind Chesterton wrote it as apologetic for 1900 England. He was talking to people living in an overall Christian society but being lukewarm or just not caring about religion, even though they would immediately recognize all the references he was making. He would have written a very different book to the fedorasquad.

Woohoo. Honorary Jew!