Is postmodernism ultimately a necessary part of Western thought and literature, as some sort of natural progression...

he said they don't understand it.

similarly would you live in baudrillards disneyland and want/be able to understand? do you think the people who are madly proHillary or proTrump are conscious about what Foucault would think of them? do you think that their context of argument is large and fluid?

most americans, like user says, would be the unconscious noncomprehending problem that postmodernism describes. you're either dumb enough to think that 99% of americans subconsciously chose to be the focus of postmodern critique and fight against its influx but do comprehend it, or you're just american and can't see how that would nullify your own argument against user.

>Is postmodernism ultimately a necessary part of Western thought and literature, as some sort of natural progression?

*sigh*

Postmodernism is anti-western, which is why all of its principles are literally the opposite of historic western norms. Postmodernism is the result of jewish influence over culture. One hundred years ago the Germans were having this same conversation about their nihilistic culture because jews were running it there then, too, and it was making people sick. When jews are allowed influence over other people's culture, they poison it with degeneracy and hopelessness to weaken their host population. Postmodernism is simply the contemporary result of 50+ years of that. It is not western, it is jewish. Immediately correct anyone who advances the idea that postmodernism is western. It is fundamentally the opposite because it was developed in opposition to western ideals by the enemies of the west, jews and their useful faux avant-garde idiots.

>Postmodernism is anti-western,
I'll have you know Richard Prince was very pro Western, as was Flann O'Brien.
>implying jewish cowboys
ha

>99% of americans probably never heard of Derrida or Foucault save being even close to understanding their work. most people who complain about post-modernism have never opened a single actual post-modernist work

Probably because postmodernists don't even understand their work. It's verbal masturbation with interpretations ranging ad infinitum and no one postmodernist can agree on what exactly their deconstructionism entails but they all swear by its legitimacy

Sorry but if your sophistry can mean anything then it effictively means nothing

From Aristotle to Nietzsche to Derrida seems like a preordained path... logic > reason > reasoning circuitously breaks itself. But I am making a leap here and using ambiguous subjective presuppositions to reach that conclusion

Wtf? Postmodernism is a broad ssystem of thought. You dont need to be even intimately familiar with its thinkers to have it affect the way you tgink and act. Thats a really shitty point

>deconstructionism is postmodernism
not that user but if you're skipping over nietzsche husserl and heidegger et al, i can't see your sources as anything other than "someone told me on the internet that derrida really best postmodernist once :3"

post modernism is pretty easy to explain and still encapsulate not just responses to structuralism but also broader responses to modernism. really, go read the intro section of wikipedia seems to be the best advice for you, because you're painting yourself into a dunce's corner.

Richard Prince fits the definition of the aforementioned useful idiot.

>Dude, logic can't be axiomatic lmao
Fuck Derrida and fuck post modernist """"people""""

I'm not conflating the two insofar as we're concerned with architects of each respective movement, but I will happily conflate them insofar as we're concerning their methods

it's all the same bullshit gibberish garbage nonsense, and if you don't believe me you can correct me and have someone correct you,, and correct them, etc. ad nauseam

It's relatively simplistic philosophical maxims masuerading as nonaxiomatic and complex because it's peddled exclusively by obscurantist sophists

the picture has nothing to do with postmodernism

>crying of lot 49
>published in 1966
>on grammatology
>published in 1967
nigga wtf

Postmodernists are people who read Nietzsche and misunderstood him. He said a similar thing, "There are no facts, only interpretations" and they take that statement as a fact and stop there rather than dig deeper into the full revelation Nietzsche had when he wrote that. If you really understand it, you should at first be a bit horrified and then realize how liberating it is, and how what it leads to is an even greater sense of ORDER in the world, which is not at all in the same sense as the assholes who look at it and think, DUH WELL THAT MEANS I CAN DO AND SAY WHATEVER BECAUSE IT'S ALL WRONG.

To answer your question, it is a necessity. Just like how the subhuman is a necessity for the Overman.

hey guess what

POSTMODERNISM =/= RELATIVISM
POSTMODERNISM =/= RELATIVISM
POSTMODERNISM =/= RELATIVISM
POSTMODERNISM =/= RELATIVISM
POSTMODERNISM =/= RELATIVISM

fuckin idiots

It's antirelativism that uses relativism as its argument.

postmodernism is a period, not a movement.

lol wtf is this guy even talking about - are you fucking srs?

postmodern art and literature is the fucking basis of postmodern philosophy. Jean Baudrillard expressly stated that his own philosophy had been predated by the art of Andy Warhol and writings of Philip K. Dick. The proto-postmodern literature of J.L. Borges - who by the way was ALSO a proto-postmodern PHILOSOPHER - also influenced the works of figures such as Derrida. Ursula K. LeGuin, one could argue, preempts the writings of Judith Butler. So.... what the fuck are you even talking about?

>calling Prince an idiot
>let alone a useful one
you need to go back to gogol

In terms of philosophy, postmodernism is (very) basically the result of Heidegger vs Descartes

>descartes: im a subject and i can know certain things about the world/objects, based entirely on rational thought
>this becomes the basis of enlightenment thinking
>heidegger comes along 3 centuries later and "sees" in the world the "fruit" of enlightenment (subject-object) thinking - nuclear warfare, mass ecological destruction, global industrialisation
>something is wrong here
>heidegger tries to restart the philosophical tradition by destroying it - particulary the exalted status of rational thought
>foucault, derrida, rorty all basically do the same thing
>rational thought is no longer 'the primary thing', but one way of being in the world

we're in a period of destruction (nihilism) atm but yeah that is necessary occasionally. we may have to create soon

It is very much a movement. How do you think so many postmodern viewpoints came to dominate academia and the humanities?

m8 do you really think you're winning the argument that nietzsche and heidegger are the problem because they're nonsense? i think the balance of probabilities is that since they both heavily rely on greek and philology, you might not be a competent enough reader. heidegger is particularly bad to lump in as obscurantist for postmodernism, because his work on artwork is probably most relevant and you can explain that to a twelve year old.

Prince worships the beatniks, the epitome of the proto-postmodern, useful idiot, jewish-derived anti-culture.

that's.... actually not necessarily wrong, per se, but it IS a little misleading.

a lot of the arguments employed by postmodern philosophers certainly engage with relativism as like... a hypothetical model, but few, if any, pomo thinkers actually dive into accepting ultimate relativism.

pomo is largely interested with narratives and how those narratives are disseminated. the corrupting influences of mass ideologies, an awareness of the biases and motives and others even unconscious ones, the ways in which media itself transmits meaning solely on the form of media it occupies, our relationship with the images we see and how we perceive them/each other/ourselves, how media shapes our cognition, how our language affects our cognition, etc etc etc - but never really "ALL TRUTH IS RELATIVE!" like OP seems to think they're saying. But I doubt OP has ever actually read any of them.

The people who espouse postmodern ideas are the least aware of those things, so don't be surprised if others laugh at you for taking them seriously. Those concepts are not applied equally, they are used to attack the society and culture white men built. That's why postmodernism is a joke and indeed a relativistic tool jews have used to try and breakdown white societies. That was always the point.

>That was always the point.
spooky

Not really. If you learn about the JQ you'll see how they've created "postmodern" conditions wherever they've been allowed to obtain power going back centuries.

>prince worships the beatniks
this is dumber than the news stations that think we worship kek

>/pol/ tries to pass art school with the theory "jews did it"
maybe read more. like at all.

I've never posted on pol and I'm much better read than you are. You can't even use grammar properly. Loser.

From his wiki page:

>Prince has built up a large collection of Beat books and papers. Prince owns several copies of On the Road by Jack Kerouac, including one inscribed to Kerouac's mother, one famously read on The Steve Allen Show, the original proof copy of the book and an original galley, as well as the copy owned by Neal Cassady (the Dean Moriarty character in the book), with Cassady’s signature and marginal notes.[12]

Not so dumb, is it?

>postmodernism is outlandish and shouldn't be taken seriously
>postmdoernism is an organized conspiracy with a Point

I dunno if "knowing what postmodernism is" necessarily equates to "taking it seriously," but I thin it's pretty clear you haven't read any either. Ironically you'd probably really enjoy Baudrillard.

Conversely, leftists tend to argue that postmodernism was utilized by the right to fuel leftist political apathy, and there are conservative postmodern thinkers like Fukuyama. He might claim he wasn't, but I mean, so did Derrida.

It should be noted - and someone already noted this - that postmodernism also wasn't a movement? It kinda seems like you guys running around screaming about the ideological attacks of postmodern thought are only really aware of like... I dunno, some reductive Foucault reading or sth.

>Prince really liked On the Road
oh jeez man you're right he sounds like a genius

I didn't read any of the comments I was replying to FUCK YOU I'M FLYING BLIND BITCH

Where are you getting that greentext argument from? I didn't say that.

> there are conservative postmodern thinkers like Fukuyama

And you're trying to make it sound like I'm the one who is clueless here? Fukuyama is a joke who was propped up by neoconservatives, who are leftist Trotskyist jews btw, and he was completely wrong.

You are at the stage of adolescent development where you still believe what academic authority figures tell you and take their ideas at face value instead of being able to interpret them from a wider scope. You are a patsy, and I recommend dropping this air you have that projects an undue sense that you have any idea what you're talking about.

>neoconservatives, who are leftist Trotskyist jews btw
lol im a schizophrenic and even im reading this like wtf am i reading aight im out

Neoconservativism was created by Trotskyist jews, the most notable being Irving Kristol, who is Bill Kristol, the current leader of neoconservativism's, father. They were never conservative, they were jewish globalists who subverted the Republican party and aligned with Hillary Clinton last election.

>only once you ascend beyond academic knowledge will you become another undistinguishable /pol/ parrot
that really made me think

Why are you so obsessed with pol? I said I've never posted there. Do you realize that there is a world outside of imageboards?

>Do you realize that there is a world outside of imageboards?
Really rich from someone who spends his time consuming echo chamber conspirationist garbage.

What echo chamber?

the fachosphere

Fachoshere? Implying fascism, a ideology that hasn't been relevant for decades? If that's who you think the boogeyman is, you must not be a very bright individual.

I'm sorry to break your illusions buddy, but whichever garbage forum you've been browsing is part of the same network. None of your ideas are original.

>a ideology that hasn't been relevant for decades
Seems relevant to you and your drone buddies.

These threads are seriously embarrassing. Absolute values/non-paradox died for good a long tine ago during Romanticism. Read a fucking book. It's honestly shameful you think this is humanity's first rodeo with these kinds of ideas.

If you're under the impression that the originality of an idea is more important than the verity of it, are you really surprised that you come as uninformed? I mean, you think fascism of all things is still relevant. Talk about unoriginality...

if you found heidegger on art hard to the point of being nonsense, you're dumb. which apparently you have.

Nah, what's really funny is that you post textbook fascist propaganda without recognizing it.

>collecting valuable memorabilia
>worship
are you going to tell me that warhol worshipped western academic art, because he filled his house with that and antiques?

while we're at it
>he probably thinks kerouac was lefty
you know he thought mccarthyism was the best thing since the pope, right?

What textbook fascist propaganda did I promote?

>the traditional right has been subverted by a marxist Jewish plot
Now let's watch you deny that this is classic fascist propaganda and only show how little you know.

The neoconservative right was created by jews, and I even listed the names of those jews. What is conspiratorial about that? It's just a fact. Am I to blame for you not being aware of these things?

There are little things more infuriating than an idiot playing dumb.
The conspiracy is claiming that Kristol created neo-conservatism as a façade rather than simply having changed his political views. This is not "just fact".

Changed their views? These jews never had a conservative bone in their body, which is why the only thing they cared about conserving was in the Levant and why their jewish leaders today openly say things like 'the white working class should be replaced.'

unz.com/isteve/bill-kristol-on-replacing-white-working-class-a-certain-amount-of-self-awareness/

These were always hostile jews. Now why are you covering for them and trying to play off their hostility toward whites as "fascist propaganda"? Because you're jewish?

You are the one promoting propaganda here.

Social dumping is a common capitalist practice and has nothing to do with marxism.
This is embarrassing.

Social dumping? Jews are hostile toward whites. Bill Kristol and other fake jewish conservatives have been very forward in their hostility toward whites. It's quite simple. Why did you avoid answering the question about you being jewish?

You read but you don't understand. He said "white people are too expensive, so we'll just import cheaper workers". Capitalism has been working like that since the beginning. This is not marxism. Jesus Christ get your head out of your ass.

Who are you trying to fool here? Capitalism is only a means in this equation. This is about a jew pretending to be a conservative who is promoting policies to replace white people, because jews hate white people. That's the point.

I'm sorry but you don't understand what marxism is. There is also nothing factual about your opinions and, yes, you are repeating fascist propaganda again.

It can't though

I have not used the word "Marxism" once itt. You are an anti-white jew defending another anti-white jew, that's why you are here. And you are a liar for trying call whites who point these facts out "fascists" and insinuate that they are the ones promoting propaganda.

Whites need to understand how jews think and why they are incapable of telling the truth, especially when it concerns another jew. Look at this jewish poster as a prime example of why jews must be removed from white societies (for the upteenth time).

Thanks

>I have not used the word "Marxism" once itt
>Neoconservativism was created by Trotskyist jews
flash news: Troskyist are not marxists according to the local fascist brainlet.

Damn bro, I was kind of rooting for you then you come out with this Stormfront tier shit.

Anyone straddling the line on the jewish problem should take a close look at the way this jewish poster acts and pretends to engage in discourse. These are very sick people who cannot tell the truth. They were inbred to maximize tribal unity, so whenever they see someone informing others about jews they will squirm their way in and start lying and muddying the conversation in the hopes that people will stop talking about jews.

Do you have a counter-argument for something I said or did you just come here to let us know you aren't up to speed on the JQ?

Imagine being the kinf of person who posts all that and claims they have nothing to do with fascism.

Fascism was a response to jewish bolshevism. White societies are in no way inherently fascist, so being in favor of white societies has, quite literally, nothing to do with fascism. It's just normal and natural, while multiculturalism is most definitely not.

How has he "pretended" to engage in discourse?

Also,
>everyone I don't like is Jewish

By not actually engaging in discourse. The poster in question is jewish. I'm not saying you or anyone else is, just him.

Where has he not engaged in discourse, and how do you know he's Jewish?

He was never interested in discourse, he just wanted to associate the truth about neoconservativism's jewish with fascism while never actually making an argument. I asked if he was jewish twice and he refused to answer, but when you've been in this game long enough, amigo, it's just easy to tell. Jews always make the same arguments and rhetoric, and people have been pointing that out for a very long time.

mate just wanted to say you're an entertaining poster, keep it up

>Absolute values/non-paradox died for good a long tine ago
Not true. Nietzsche resurrected the logos and it now lives again through him.

Wew, lad. I almost forgot why I never come here.

Why thank you, I appreciate that. I've never really posted anywhere else, which apparently leads to me sticking out, but I am actually interested in counter-arguments to the ideas I try ti advance. Though spreading information about this gypsy tribe of sociopaths is of course a reward in itself.

Well allow me to issue the final wave of goodbye.

Lol I'll leave when I want, you spastic faggot.

Are you ironic posting or something? It takes 15-20 minutes of some of the vaguest research about jews to realize they are the most powerful ethnic group on the planet, and that alone is worth investigating about them more.

See: thezog.info/list-summaries/

jta.org/2009/10/05/fundermentalist/at-least-139-of-the-forbes-400-are-jewish

youtube.com/watch?v=Ts1aidG_hjk

No one is going to think you're special by charging into threads, making hit and run posts devoid of substance, then claiming you're better than others. People will think the opposite: that you're a chump who is either too afraid or not intelligent enough to provide a reasoned argument against that of which you disagree.

>90% of responses to this guy are always just calling him a /pol/-poster
really jogs the noggin

>my antisemitic blogs and YouTube "documentary" propaganda.
Lol every time.

Probably because it's /pol/ bait.

It takes 5 minutes to research how almost all of these autistic claims are bullshit. I honestly still can't figure out how 70 year old Nazi memes are still surviving in the age of the internet.

I bet you also believe in "cultural Marxism", amirite? That's another Nazi meme.

The irony here.

So start debunking them or stop complaining. All you're doing is jew-whining.

You're too obvious. JTA is Jewish Telegraph Agency, an Israeli paper, and the Zog List is just a list of corporate, media, academic, and government heads in America and their races - no judgement, just names and races. The video is just a historical overview of jewish and gentile interactions in mostly Europe.

You are out of your league.

Here is another one for you. Joel Stein's (yes, jewish) article: Who Runs Hollywood?

articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/19/opinion/oe-stein19

Sorry, you cannot deny reality. You can say you don't care that jews rule, but that they do rule is simply undeniable.

Whoops, this one was for you, most-likely-hasbara user.

You're too obvious. JTA is Jewish Telegraph Agency, an Israeli paper, and the Zog List is just a list of corporate, media, academic, and government heads in America and their races - no judgement, just names and races. The video is just a historical overview of jewish and gentile interactions in mostly Europe.

You are out of your league.

Here is another one for you. Joel Stein's (yes, jewish) article: Who Runs Hollywood?

articles.latimes.com/2008/dec/19/opinion/oe-stein19

Sorry, you cannot deny reality. You can say you don't care that jews rule, but that they do rule is simply undeniable.

did the jews get annoyed we've been leaving them alone and try to get persecuted in the postmodernism thread?

or are they supposed to be annoyed they can't write postmodernism?

it's really hard to tell what they think they're doing. i guess you must have to be jewish to get it.

>if you disagree with me, you are Jew-whining.
Convenient. You want to start with how fucking broad some of these "everyone is a Jew" charts are? 100 percent genetically Jewish? Converted Jewish? Culturally Jewish? 1/5th Jewish? Of course, for the autistic claim to work, you need to dismiss subcategories of what you define as "Jewish". So, let's go based on genetic groups then. So anyone who has even fucked someone remotely Jewish, is somehow implicitly benefiting from a global ethnic-based conspiracy to "run" the globe? Does that include all converted Jews? All married into Jewish families?

It's so fucking insane that you think it matters.

That was my post, so there's no irony. Challenge the points or shut up. Even non-redpilled people here are tired of this incessant whining void of substance. If you disagree with something, forward an argument or keep your mouth shut. This "omg, pol, fascism, my panties" shit is stale and boring.

The JTA piece is an opinion blog, the zog list is made by an autist and the youtube video is narrated by someone who is barely even a credited historian. Fuck off with these "intro to /pol/", baby-tier arguments.
>b-b-but muh LA Times opinion piece on Jews!
Yeah, that's been debunked for years pal.