So, user, how's your dream of becoming a fous writer coming along? Write anything lately?

Self-published, also traditionally published books don't usually do too well unless you have a big name pushing them. Traditional publishing companies and book retailers alike only advertise for the big-name books that are sure to sell, wishing to maximize sales. The majority of traditionally published books don't much much money. The author gets a nice advance starting out, generally $5000 minimum, at least if you get with a big-name publishing company, but it's not guaranteed to make much money beyond that and if the book doesn't sell (which most don't) then it's not guaranteed to be picked up by that publishing company again.

At any rate, $20/month is better than $0/month, and I even made $50 in a month once from book sales alone. For those who keep at it and get successful, some make up to $5k-15k per month. All I need is $1250 per month to pay all my present bills, keep food on the table, and rum in the fridge, so give it time. I'll get back up to $50 per month and continue to rise as I write more books and hone my craft. There's a long road to travel yet, God willing. Now that I've gotten into ghostwriting that has opened up another source of revenue I haven't even tapped which as mentioned has brought my writing income into the triple-digits. I don't have to get much into quadruple-digits in order to have 'made it' as it were.

the fuck is a fous writer

This sounds like a generic copy pasta shill from some amazing advertisement about self publishing. Not trying to shit on your accomplishments or anything, but self publishing still seems like a race to the bottom of the barrel for me. I've gotten payed about $500 so far for the 5 short stories I've published (one of those was a flash fiction piece that took me like twenty minutes to write) so the fact you have whole books out there and have grossed like a 100 bucks isn't too encouraging. That and the fact you basically gotta spam yourself to death on blogs and social media to get the ball rolling for an audience and it just feels a little self deprecating to be like HEY EVERYONE LOOK I DID A THING every day. I'd rather have a proffesional vouch for me, and if that doesn't happen then I know my writing is probably garbage and I need to go back to the drawing board. I thought about self pubbing some novellas I have simply because novellas are a hard sell anyway and rarely find publications that accept them, but even then, Im apprehensive just because traditional publishers look down on people with self published stuff. Best of luck to you though man. Hopefully there's some self published anons who can prove us wrong

Any book recommendations on how to write?

Did she really ask you that?

yeah, dude.

Perhaps 15+ years ago, you'd likely be right that self-publishing is a useless endeavor, but not anymore. Something like 60% of all online purchases of books are with Amazon, MILLIONS of dollars are spent on Kindle Unlimited alone which is essentially the eBook version of Netflix, not to mention the owner of Amazon is looking to potentially pass Bill Gates as the richest man in the world which is kind of a big deal, and they seem to be steadily growing and improving. As I mentioned, there are people who make $5k to $15k per month, which is $60k to $180k a year which is no small amount (at least, not to writers, but to Amazon it's pennies). I've only been writing for a year, and I've been self-published for less. 8 book self-published plus 1 ghostwritten, and I've only had about 10 months and 10 days to learn the ins and outs of marketing and to gain any sort of readerbase/following. It's all about the long-run when it comes to self-publishing, but people can and have not only 'made it' with this method, but even excelled.

I don't spam at all, that's the exact WRONG way to market. I mention it from time to time when relevant, pretty much always at the end of a comment or post but not many of my comments/posts include marketing/advertising, and I actually don't use things like Twitter or Facebook even though they'd be HUGELY helpful in getting more exposure. I don't go "HEY LOOK I DID A THING", I conduct myself as usual, leaving comments, sometimes giving advice or my own experiences, and sometimes at the end or in between I mention that I have a book finished. In fact many times I don't even push my Amazon books and just offer the one I have free on Lulu.

It would indeed be VERY nice to have a professional to vouch for you but it's almost impossible to get one. If you want to even have a CHANCE with a major publisher, you need an agent, and it's no easy thing to get one of those. Even if you do, it doesn't guarantee that you'll get traditionally published, and even if you DO it doesn't guarantee that you will have 'made it' and will be able to pay all your bills and cover all expenses from then on out. If your book doesn't sell, all you'll have is the advance, and how long can you last on $5000? I live pretty cheaply, but for me that'll only do me for 5 months and that's if I REALLY watch my dollars for those 5 months, never going to any pubs or restaurants and possibly not even treating myself to fast food.

If self-publishing is so useless yet can still make you a bit of money, then why not put your books there while waiting to get recognized? I can see no logical reason not get into self-publishing while pursuing traditional publishing on the side, not that it's something you can exactly 'pursue'. You basically need to wait for an agent to come to YOU, and all agents get swamped with books, surrounded by writers wishing to get someone to represent them to the big-time traditional publishing companies, and those companies... (1/2)

(2/2)
... and those companies are swamped by agents trying to represent their writers. Yes, self-publishing/Amazon is over-saturated with books, there's something like, what, 100,000 new books per month? Since I self-published my first 10 months ago there's probably been over a million new books that got self-published, but as it turns out, traditional publishing is over-saturated as well. I've heard that traditional publishers look down on those with self-published stuff, but I'm sceptical on that. I figure it's a good way to gauge on whether a writer is hitting it with readers or not, and if they are, then it's a great time to give that writer a chance. If a previous book has done well, and they come forward with a sequel that's not been self-published, well there's already a bunch of people who has read and enjoyed the first not to mention that writer might personally know some of them who have read it so it's likely that the sequel will get a lot of sales.

Even in traditional publishing, a lot of the marketing/advertising is up to the writer unless you happen to be Stephen King, John Green, or J K Rowling. Speaking of which, just because you DID manage to get traditionally published, is that truly a measure that says your work isn't 'probably garbage'? Just saying. At any rate, it's beyond question that it's very possible to make a living via self-publishing, and not only that but it's beyond question that it's possible to even get RICH via self-publishing.

I wish you the best of luck as well, hopefully you do well with traditional publishing, but for me? My focus is on self-publishing. If I finally someday get an agent, and he or she finally gets the attention of a traditional publisher for me, I'm going to have some terms of my own to put in the contract. eBook versions will likely be off-limits as I want Amazon to handle that so as to take advantage of their 70% royalties versus traditional publishing which typically has only around... what was it... 5-15% royalties? 15% is REALLY freakin' hard to get, once again, pretty much have to be a REALLY well-known name. An unknown name shouldn't expect 10% or more in royalties, certainly not with their first book.

Anyways, once again, best of luck. If you want some self-published writers who have made it, check out Derek Murphy, Tim Knox, Brandon Sanderson, or Andy Weir. Oh, there's also Hugh Howey. They've all gotten quite wealthy with self-publishing. Some 'strike gold' like that women with 50 Shades of Grey or J K Rowling with Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone, but most have to work at it. I've been working at it for about a year, and I look forward to working at it for another. Cheers!

So you were paid $20 for your Hunger Games erotic fanfiction and now you think you're James Patterson

Right on man. You do offer a compelling argument, and I think I'll take the foray into self publishing my novellas and novelettes that are too long or to niche for what the magazines are looking for and see what happens. I've also wanted to dabble with designing my own book covers, since I've always messed with graphic design in the past, have photoshop and always had clear ideas of what I wanted the covers to illustrate for my stories, and the fact that all the generic cover generators used in the kindle create app are god awful, And a lot of the covers I see in many of the self published novels looked like they were done in MS paint, so I guess I could be using two skills in one on that front . So I guess it will be a fun experiment while also continuing on my traditional publication road. Still, I just wish there was SOME kind of filter/ bar of standard for the influx of teenagers and people writing fan fiction on Amazon that have blatant spelling errors and borderline plagiarism.

Not the user you responded to.

>if your book doesn't sell, all you'll have is the advance
Is it really that hard at this point though? You got the backing of a publisher, even if it's halfassed for unknown authors, it's a great basis to do the same type of shilling you'd do as self-published author, only with the bonus that a professional confirmed that your work is decent enough to pay couple thousands for and the logo of the publisher to get some trust from the readers.

Besides, it's such a great confidence booster. I won a small contest, got praise from retired and active authors, lectors, teachers and girlfriends but it's all worthless compared to someone willing to bet money on your success.

>I can see no logical reason not get into self-publishing while pursuing traditional publishing on the side
Time-space limitations. Besides, even if you do find the time to flood the market with dinosaur erotica, taking one week per book, there is still the expenses for the cover or editor for example.

>is that truly a measure that says your work isn't 'probably garbage'?
Yes. No one spends thousands of bucks on garbage. It might be very flawed and everything but it's just not complete shit almost by definition.

>hey look, its a person who managed to make a living doing what they love. Hey guy, FUCK YOU

Girls always tell me "you should write a book user!" I'm too smart to actually let on that I am writing a book, since in all honesty it'll probably be seen as henry darger tier (before his image rehabilitated).

Well in that case I hope you do well both in self-publishing and with your main goal of traditional publishing. I think in time, one will help you to achieve the other, rather than try to prevent you. Personally, the thing that I think most helps me in gauging how my writing is going is the readers I've pretty much come to make friends with. We email each other fairly regularly, they buy my books quickly as soon as they're out, and we shoot the shit about this and that. They know that I appreciate ALL feedback, whether positive or negative, and they do sometimes try to pick out some lame parts of my books. There have been some problems here and there, but they seem to be few and far between. Perhaps you could try that out. A great way to get more exposure is to use KDP Select's 'free promotion' thing where you put the book for free.

When you use that promotion, advertise it like crazy online, not to the point of spamming but when you're not trying to SELL books to people but rather just offering eBooks for free, I think that does give a lot of leniency. At the end of just about every comment, and at least in one post per thread, you could mention at the end that you have a free promotion going on, tell the dates, and provide links. It's free, it's not like you're asking for money. Also, it was via Kindle Unlimited that I got a reader who gave me my first review and became my first reader whom I have kept in contact with. As it turns out, he also has a blog that has quite a few steady readers, and the blog itself is KIND of related to zombie survival, so through him I've definitely gained even more readers.

So maybe it's through readers you'll gather over time that can tell you if you're doing well or not, people who are connoisseurs of sorts in the genre. Also, high-quality covers can make a HUGE amount of difference. I know someone who self-published a book with a paid-for cover and she made over $100 in her first month, which is VERY rare with self-publishing, I was jelly, but was all the same very happy to see it. She's pretty chill. Anyhow, best of luck, if you make some good covers it will likely lead to more sales for you! If you'd like to discuss self-publishing, perhaps have questions, feel free to email me at [email protected]. As mentioned I've been writing for just over a year and been self-published for over 10 months. There's a HUGE learning curve in self-publishing, I'm still steadily learning more, but I've already learned a lot so I might be able to help you out a bit.

I'm certain it's a MASSIVE confidence booster and if I manage to get taken up by a traditional publisher (as mentioned, they'll have to leave eBooks alone) then I'll most certainly have a spring in my step. By that point though, I dare say I'll already be making over $1000 per month in self-publishing. As mentioned though, even traditional publishing is over-saturated, and if memory serves something like 90% of traditionally published books don't make money. I guess what they do is try new books and new writers, waiting to find the next big name, and once they've got that name (and the series connected to it) that's selling books they latch on tight. It is very possible though that if you get traditionally published, you still could fail, and if your book doesn't sell well enough then you might not get taken again by that same traditional publisher.

Self-publishing can be 100% free. How do I know this? 6 novels, 1 novella, and 1 novelette, without a single penny spent. 100% of my royalties have been 100% profit. I use the cover creator (not ideal, but it gets the job done for now), and I do my own editing however for many, many years I've been honing my grammar to be as good as it possibly can, even in texts I try to keep perfect grammar. I'm not a grammar Nazi by any means, I don't care about other people, but I seek perfection when I write something, and so I'm at a point where my 1st drafts are extremely clean. My last 3 novels have been 1st-draft self-publications, and so far I've not gotten any complaints whatsoever about the grammar. Oh yeah, and I should have mentioned this to the other guy, but my last book was given the price of $3.99 USD instead of the $2.99 USD I've been sticking with for the previous 3 books. I first consulted my readers, including one who is very tight on funds and in the beginning told me he'll buy ANYTHING I release as long as it's $2.99. Well, that was quite some time ago, and I asked him first and foremost if he'd still consider buying my book even though it's $1 more expensive. He told me that it was absolutely worth it and that I should go for it. I was very happy to hear that, and my readers were unanimous on the matter, $3.99 is A-OK considering the quality of the work.

Well if a book can still be flawed and just be 'not complete shit', there's plenty of books like that self-published on Amazon. Yeah there's lots of shit, obviously, it's piss-easy to self-publish, but there's loads of books that are flawed however are not complete shit. Also, from what I've heard of 50 Shades of Gray (which I'm pretty sure got its beginning in self-publishing) as well as the excerpts I've read online (though I've never bought it), it sounds like complete shit. Little more than erotica. But hey, I could be wrong, like I said I've never read it. Anyways I'm just not so keen to think that just because something's been traditionally published, it's perfect. Similarly, self-published booked =/= automatic shit.

>90% of traditionally published books don't make money.
Not surprising given the sheer amount published stuff, though I wonder how it looks with a deeper look at the genres, but yes failure is the most likely option for sure, and to even get a chance to fail, one has to overcome multiple hurdles for traditional publishing. I view it a bit like gambling on sports, while self-publishing is basically starting your own company just without the downside of needing initial capital.

>Self-publishing can be 100% free.
Not quite. Time is never free, and since republishing stuff with a traditional publisher that's already out is beyond unlikely additionally to the whole unlikeliness of getting a traditional publisher in the first place, a self-published novel that didn't sell well or at least gave you some fans is a waste of time that could be spent on a book for traditional publisher. Well, almost, practice never hurts.

As for cover/editing, yeah, one can do that but as you mentioned in the previous post, a good cover alone can make a huge difference, specially before one establishes a fanbase, so it seems like a reasonable investment to boost the chances.

$3,99 is definitely a fair price for a solid novel-lenght ebook, traditional publishers demanding at least twice as much for digital seems crazy when there are often paperbacks available for less.

>just because something's been traditionally published, it's perfect. Similarly, self-published booked =/= automatic shit.
Well, absolutes tend to be absolutely silly, but as a rule of thumb, it does seem that the majority of self-published stuff is REALLY crappy, which is a shame for the people who have quality work due the association, and of course the numbers make it harder for readers to find the decent stuff. To be fair, majority of traditionally published stuff tends to be crappy too, but the bar is still higher, take 50 Shades: While it's pretty shitty, it has meme-worthy shittyness.

The democratisation of the market is definitely a big positive, as is the bigger cut for the writers, but as the other user said, it'd be great if one could come up with a filter to make finding quality work easier for the readers. (Way off-topic but I guess it could be doable once basic income is a thing and Amazon could get away paying people almost nothing to rate/review every released book)

Either way, congratz for making it work. Everyone following their dreams deserves utmost respect, and managing to pay (at least some of) the bills doing something you love is even more amazing. Best of luck reaching the $1250 goal, and going beyond. You totally should hold an AMA here when you get there.
Found your site and will check out your books later.

Wouldnt exactly consider making 20 dollars a month the same as making a living

stop bullying me karlie

Seems like wherever we look, the world of publication is over-saturated. Some also think that, just like malls and stores are having more difficulty making ends meet due to the ever-expanding world of online shopping, traditional publishers might soon be finding difficulty taking chances with unknown writers as more and more readers decide to just get affordable eBooks or paperbacks on Amazon instead of getting them from publishing companies. I mean, my longest book (over 80,000 words) is priced at I think $8.99 USD if memory serves, for the paperback, yet I still make a nice bit of royalty. Hang on... yeah, $8.99 USD, and I get $1.74. If I were to put the price up to $9.99 I'd get $2.34. That's 19.3% and 23.4% royalty respectively, so yeah, that's WAY over what even Stephen King could expect to make on his paperback releases, and that's probably at cheaper prices to. Now let's say I got greedy and set my 234 page novel to $13.99, I'd get $4.74 royalty which is 33.9% royalty, yet I don't think that price is ENTIRELY unreasonable. Sharpe's Battle has over 350 pages, and is $14.99 as the standard paperback price on Amazon. So while $13.99 is a bit inflated for mine, it's still within the realm of reason, if not pushing it a bit.

It would seem we still differ in opinion in terms of self-publishing being free, particularly since just because you self-publish a book doesn't mean a traditional publisher will refuse to touch it. Like I mentioned, 50 Shades was self-published before being traditionally published (I think), but yeah a cover helps loads and making sure there's fewer than 2 typos were 100 pages is likewise very important but the scatter 1 or 2 left in there in total isn't a huge deal. Even traditionally published and professionally edited books can end up with typos. I remember once reading I think Sharpe's Sword in a paperback that was printed in the 80s in England and in large print (the only copy the library had), and let me tell you, it was RIFE with typos. People who had read the book YEARS before me had circled or underlined many areas in the book that had typos, to the point that one reader got so paranoid that they started underlining Portuguese thinking that there was only supposed to be one 'u' but eventually seemed to have either stopped reading or realized they were wrong because they stopped underlining the word.

Anyhow, we seem to be mostly on the same page, no pun intended. I have to ask though; what's AMA? Anyhow if you check out my books I hope you like them, as the site mentions I've got one for free on Lulu which could probably do with an edit, I'll get around to it one of these days but I VERY much look forward to hiring an editor to do it for me. At any rate, here's a link to the free book.

lulu.com/shop/j-n-morgan/another-one-please-to-dull-the-pain/ebook/product-23229284.html#productDetails

Cheers!

youd make more at taco bell in 2 days what you made in a month

That's the problem I have with self publishing fags. They all say there's some who make 5k a month or whatever, but can never name them.

Then they brag that they're pulling in a big 20 spot a month, so obviously self publishing works for them.

Traditional publishing definitely isn't all it's cracked up to be, sure. But the amount of self delusion I see in the self publishing crowd sort of steers me away from it.

True, but I love writing, and I would not love working at Taco Bell. Also, with writing there's the chance that I'll be making $50,000+ a year, within the next 1-5 years. With Taco Bell? Getting a salary like that within that amount of time is incredibly unlikely. Not only that but again, I love writing, I do not love working in fast food (which I have some degree of experience in). I'll also put to you that even if I stop writing for the next couple months I'll still be making some money from my books, but if I stopped working at Taco Bell I would not make any money at all.

When I first started writing, for several months I would have made more money by finding someone to borrow a $5 bill off of once a month rather than putting hours upon hours upon hours of my time towards writing and editing. Eventually I got the hang of promotions/advertising/marketing however, I got more books available, and steadily I'm becoming a better writer. Now over 10 months into being self-published as well as only just recently getting into ghostwriting I'm comparing what I make per month to working full-time days. That is, without a doubt, progress. I'll be making much more as I approach my 1-year anniversary for being self-published (mid-late October). As for my second year of being self-published? Who knows, time will tell, but I anticipate that by October 2018 when I've been doing this for two years, I'll have at least 21 books to my pseudonym and more readers that I swap emails with regularly, and whom look forward to buying my books as soon as they're released. Third year? Fourth? Tenth? Twentieth? Thirtieth? God willing, fortieth and fiftieth years? I'm in it for the long haul. Taco Bell would make me more money in the short-term, but in the long-run? A life of writing is the life for me, and I am bloody optimistic.

I've already been told by complete strangers I've never met that one day I'll get offers for movies and television series. At least one has even said that one day I'll be a household name and she said she looks forward to being able to say "I knew him since the beginning" even though we only spoke online. One day I'll try my hand at non-fiction, and I also eagerly await historical fiction because it's my favourite genre and I've had a hard-on for history that has been on-going for almost half my life. There's a lot I want to write about, including works that are quite politically charged, reflecting the times we live in, both now and in the future. One day I'll go to University to get a degree in history to further help my writing, and I wish to become fluent in French and will likely write a book in that language eventually even though it probably wouldn't be as profitable as my typical ones in English.

So tell me... how's Taco Bell going, user?

Derek Murphy made an average of $5k a month for half a year via self-publishing, and it's rising. There's also Andy Weir (who wrote The Martian), Brandon Sanderson (big name in Fantasy, I hear. Not really my genre), Tim Knox, and Hugh Howey. All are making big-time money via self-publishing. Will 5 names do, or would you like more? They all have videos and/or interviews available online if you care to do some research on them.

You made 120 dollars in a month. You will never make more. You can beg professionally and earn more a month.

I hate strawberry milkshakes (although thinking about it I have never tried strawberry ice cream is it good?)
Also the real limits of the English language really come down to scope. I can do infinite nesting with code, why not English?

This drunken rant is brought to you by my drinking, which is brought to you by my sexual failures since when I met with this girl I am seeing last time I couldn't get hard with a condom on and that humiliated me.

After writing about 180 of them since January, I've stopped writing daily sonnets around mid-June.

Although I have written some 20 more sonnets since then, I will now change my focus and start writing sestinas. I'll see if I can write at least three sestinas a week.

My sonnets were mostly awful, and the influence of Petrarchism and Symbolism was just too evident. I couldn't get away from it.

For my sestinas, there will be one golden rule: only use concrete nouns for the endings. I think this will help to make them much superior to my sonnets.

>Still living the ilusion that talent means = You do nothing and people will come to suck your dick because you are THAT good
>Not realizing theres a shitload of talented people who die in poverty and anonymity because they simply didn't have luck
>Theres also a shitload of unskilled pricks who end up having sucess
>Attributing success to skill to begin with like a retarded result-oriented thinker
>'''Wahhh, whats that shit about writing so much? talented people write once every 20 years and people love their shit, like the 50th shades of grey chick and George R.R''

I thought Sanderson's stuff was published by Tor Books

>Derek Murphy
His income is self reported and something really doesn't smell right about him. For instance, he was kicked off Kindle Unlimited in April, claimed he was let back in, but still only has 3 books on Amazon right now. This is just one of several red flags about him.

Yes, self publishing is viable alternative. But when you hold up people like Weir and Howey, it's like saying people can be the next Stephen King or JK Rowling. It's possible but extremely unlikely. Self publishing isn't some magic path to fame and fortune just because it cuts out the traditional publishing industry. Most self published authors are going to be the equivalent of the traditional publishing midlist where they'll sell ok and make a supplemental income.

Good luck with your writing. I hope you hit the $50k/year you're hoping for.

Sanderson self pubbed/small pubbed two novellas after he became famous.

I'll grant you that, there is indeed something a bit odd/off about Derek Murphy, but he's made a lot of vids that help self-published authors. Also, who else is going to report his earnings? The only way to find stuff like that out is if the writer comes out and reports it themself. You can't look up on a site online to see which self-published authors are making the most money.

I also never suggested that self-publishing is magic and will automatically cause fame and fortune. I've been self-published for over 10 months, got 8 books finished and will soon start on my 9th, I've been working pretty damn hard in this time, yet as mentioned I'm still making only double-digits based on book sales however ghostwriting seems to have opened up a fresh avenue of revenue for writing that I hadn't previously tapped. Self-publishing, almost always (except for those select few who 'strike gold' like Andy Weir) takes a lot of time and work. Lots of advertising and marketing, getting into regular contact with those who enjoy your work most, and utilizing feedback/reviews/ratings to help improve your writing abilities.

Thanks for the well wishes, however $50k/year isn't what I'm hoping for. Just $15k/year is my goal. That will cover all expenses as well as give me some extra spending money, based on the modest way of living I have at the moment. Once I get to that modest goal which is DEFINITELY doable with self-publishing (you might not think $5k-15k per month is truly possible with self-publishing but I see no reason not to believe it considering the millions that Amazon makes every year with Kindle Unlimited let alone actual sales), I'll consider myself to have 'made it'. From there, I keep writing, stay in contact with those who enjoy my books and personality, eventually I'll experiment in actually spending money on advertising, I'll also eventually pay graphic designers for custom covers, probably hire a professional editor to check out my books though I really don't think they'll have many things to point out, and as mentioned I'll be working on my writing for years and years and years so obviously I'll be improving over time, and my bibliography is expanding rapidly. In my first year of writing (August 26 2016-August 26 2017) I wrote and self-published 8 books including wrote the majority of a ghostwritten novella which I finalized one day into my 2nd year, on the 27th. For year 2 I anticipate 10 books bare minimum but wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being 12, likely a good few of them ill be further instalments in my already 5-book long zombie survival series.

As far as I'm concerned, I truly do believe that traditional publishing will be an inevitability, but ultimately my focus will always be self-publishing. Just can't beat those royalty percentages. Basically 20-33% for paperback (or higher if you just get silly with) and 35/70% for eBook. That, versus 5-15% for physical copies with traditional publishers.

Not to disappoint but writing is a winner-takes-all market and $120 is more like 2% of $1250 (assuming you put in the same amount of effort - otherwise just put in more effort)

But that is not my dream. Artists are ''insufferable''.

>becoming a fous writer

is this some obscure writing market splinter? does it mean the same as "art fou", except for literature? or is it a typo for "famous"?