This is required reading for my history class

>does an opposing political theory that challenges my own have any modern relevance?

how about the first amendment, you dumb ass

oh snap i guess those 800 hundred-pages of in-depth analysis of the way capitalism works was just human nature. better throw Das Kapital in the trash

come back after actually reading Marx, you utter pleb

>the pareto distribution is a fault of capitalism

the first amedment can be dangerous. It should be suspended until we deal with this alt right problem

human nature is a spook. it can change according to the times

you suck at implications

>pareto distribution

Kek x2.

As a historical document, yes.

Here's the problem: you actually have to understand Jordan Peterson's arguments if you want to pawn them off as your own. Yeah, I've heard him say that too. This is one of the main reasons this board is now worse than ever, people watch Peterson, refuse to read the texts that all of his arguments were stolen from, and then come on here and use what he said as if they're at all qualified. It's really sad. It's fun to watch, though, so carry on, friendo.

Not real communism dickweed.

Oh, he's actually being serious? He's just pinched that from Peterson?

Fuck, that's both depressing and hilarious.

>bunch of nerds larpers

you've wasted your time reading a worthless textbook
congratulations

This book barely even has anything to do with communism to be quite honest family.

It's probably one of the worst things you could read by Marx.

Fool.

>Veeky Forums - genre fiction

kek

Remember that The Communist Manifesto was a practical document written to outline the demands of a group that had recently occupied Paris and was fighting the French military. This is one thing I love about Marx, he wasn't just a theorist like Freud and Nietzsche. He was a man of action who led his comrades to revolution. Ultimately he made mistakes but it is a testament to his genius that he was willing to imagine such revolutionary ideas and put them into practice.

Those writings by Marx that survived best were his early philosophical texts on Alienation, commodity fetishism, and objectification though.

Very good question. The answer is simple.
As communism is, in theory, an ideal financial form. It remains desirable, even if we cannot have it.
You would try to get out of the shithole even if you knew you cannot.
The attempt by Marx and Engels to design such a form, despite its imperfectness may therefore be useful. As you search for possibilities to get out of the shithole.

>yet another discussion in which people take the Communist Manifesto seriously
I thought people just treated it like the Iliad at this point

The Manifesto was written for a specific time period we have since moved past from industrially; many of M & E's demands have since been met.

If you really want to learn Marxism, read Capital instead.

this guy gets it

What translation of Das Kapital should I get?

>human nature
>not bait

good shit

>not taking the Iliad seriously

>only free speech for me goy

Good check David Harvey's lecture series, he recommends one near the beginning of the first lecture.

>actions are words

>b8

What an insightful condescending post.

Did somebody imply the opposite?

That book will never lose relevence.

Most people who make the meme speech argument, yes.

Wait did I get that backwards? I won't make bourbon based excuses I'm just dumb.

>human nature maymay
>socialism will never work because people are greedy, so let's rely on charity, because people are generous by nature

Oh, you

yo, what if, what if, Nechayev

nihilism is gay and faggot.
COMIC FATALISM is for upright citizens.

Exactly so, wise words my friend. Shame Veeky Forums is filled with so many brainlets these days!

If any of you really think communism is the way of the future i recommend you check out /leftypol/ for your bondage needs.

this response is always successful in triggering marxists because even they know it's true

look at all of the not argument replies you got

...

Communism hasn't failed.
Stop being an illiterate /pol/cuck. Fucking hell, history is a joke.

Hey wassup my buddy what if instead of stalinism and exploitative capitalism there was a another way to a better future with most aspects of freedom and market society allowing for private ownership and enterprise while at the same effectively dealing with abuse from capitalism and having some aspects of socialism?

>human nature
Lame excuse; Man is something to be overcome.

benito pls

I think Social Ecology is the way forward, not Authoritarian Communism.

Libertarian Leftism will win, son

But always back to normally with the time.

So, mutualism? Ignoring the "private" "ownership" part, it maintains markets.

Marx wrote Das Kapital after the manifesto kek

'human natoor' is a stupid argument. Capitalism isn't human nature either, we evolved to live in caves and spear-hunt mammoths. Civilisation has been a momentary detour from our true 'selves'. We are biologically designed to spend our time chasing animals over long distances. So I guess by that logic we should start from scratch? We clearly can't do any better than wiping our ass with clumps of leaves and dying at age 30 from a tiger attack.

>capitalism isn't natural

that's the point, it was stupid of marx to think history would go in a full circle and we'd end up back in the garden of eden but with machines instead of apple trees

Private Property is usurous jew bullshit.
Personal Property is fine.

But that guy is talking about Market Socialism, like with Josip Tito. And honestly, fine. Social Democracy is a reasonable middle ground.

You're like, inserting mythology into diamat. What are you doing? So machines will give us knowledge under communism? We'll exist in a metaphor? Your statement is bizarre.

>human nature is a spook. it can change according to the times

but has it?

>we evolved to live in caves and spear-hunt mammoths

we still hunt animals and we still consume animal meat

>wiping our ass with clumps of leaves and dying at age 30 from a tiger attack.

we still clean our asses and many people still die by tiger attacks.

Why does it have to be a 'full circle'? I didn't realise you could apply horseshoe theory to the development of mankind. I really don't think Marx said society would be anything like that in the first place. Where is it said that the future would be like the past where we all walk around naked except there's big machines everywhere? I just take issue with the belief that human nature apparently arbitrarily ends any possibility of a better future. I'm certain people said similar shit about the Feudal system. 'It's human nature to serve your lord!'

Wow nice dude you're so right!! The future is the exact same as the past! I don't see any difference between hunting food or buying it at a store!! Truly this is some incredible discourse.

>gmil
I've never seen anyone booty bother t-34 commanders as much as them. Thanks for reminding me to check it.

marxist historical prophecy begins with primitive communism and ends with industrial communism with a couple unpleasant stages in between

>Marx uses a metaphor to draw some parallels between early human society and industrial communist society
>150 years later
>'so basically what he meant is that it'll be like Adam and Eve and we'll all walk around naked but also in between the trees there'll be big robots that make our stuff and we can just poop wherever! There's a robot that cleans it up!'

Still better than deep ecology.

glad i could help

>human nature

the point was primitive communism only works before the fall which is to say before knowledge of good and evil, which is to say before "human nature" which is to say sin, technology can't undo the fall, well maybe in some sci-fi scenario, but marx wanted to be taken seriously as an economist not a sci-fi writer, you'd think on a literature board it wouldn't be that hard for people to get the point of biblical allusions

it's actually pretty shit but a decent intro and overview. Also every so-called "communism" that was tried was very far removed from classical marxism, which is what that book roughly peddles. Actually none were communism, in that they don't fit the criteria and that they never claimed to be, just different kinds of authoritarian socialism, sometimes not socialism at all. In all cases in the long run, they basically amounted to just stealing the socialist/commie aesthetic and solidarity for the purposes of instating, or at least, later retaining a state capitalist authoritarian regime.

Propaganda is easy when you can do the
>le workers r g8, i h8 piglets meme

Btw none of these states really failed, they industralised nations and made them pretty stronk. China wouldn't be where it is today with maoism and the cultural revolution. It'd be like africa at worst, and like indonesia at best. Instead it's set to be the primary world power, economically and politically.

>with
without*

So, Georgism?

The one my Marx.

Read something like value, price and profit or wage labour and capital before.

Why is "human nature" a meme?
Genuine question.

I've read some books about communism and the Soviet Union and in my, still rather uneducated opinion, communism keeps failing because humans will human.
The capitalism also turns sour because humans will human. As well as any other conceivable, human-controlled system.

Someone please redpill me but without just laughing at me.

You've pretty much got it. Get on the Tao train.

>Why is "human nature" a meme?
because human anture isn't fixed, it's created by society and it creates society itself
society and human nature are in a big feedback loop

That's an interesting thought. Do you have any books where I could read more about this?

Read communism in theory. Justly, they'd also require Gulag Archipelago, to read communism in practice.

That can't happen in a Millenarian way, as Marxists want

>implying it won't come with the Second Coming
Get woke

You've read books about the Soviet Union and you think it was a communist state?

>because human anture isn't fixed, it's created by society

if that were true totalitarian dictators would never exist since humans could be reprogrammed without oppression and violence.

A difficult question to answer, really. An attempt at communism or just a piece of shit with the guise of communism? And where do you draw the line?
That's why there are debates about this all over the internet.

It's is extremely relevant to your history class, as it's the text that defined the essential conflict of the 20th century.

there are limits, of course you're not gonna get people to voluntarily and happily give away their children to be slaves in a mine but that is an extreme, just like the totalitarianism you mention
just look at the acceptance of lgbt people today vs hundreds of years ago

this post is cool and good

thats not much a refutation of human nature. the wider acceptance of gays is mostly due to increased tolerance. of which it costs an individual almost nothing to do.

communists defended the soviet union up until it was no longer defensible. then it became not true communism.

>the wider acceptance of gays is mostly due to increased tolerance. of which it costs an individual almost nothing to do.
it costs him almost nothing according to you, because you live in the 21st century and weren't raised in the 1920s

pretty much like reading mein kampf

I love how triggered leftists are whenever you mention that maybe, just maybe, human nature might not be exactly compatible with their egalitarian utopia.
>but muh relationships with the means of production changes man wholly!
Yes, that is why nobody can relate to anything they read in books written before capitalism. It's not like human beings tend to behave in the same fucking ways everywhere since the times of Gilgamesh.
Blankslatism is dumb and it's wrong.

>just look at the acceptance of lgbt people today vs hundreds of years ago
Nothing changed in terms of intrinsic response, heterosexual men both homophilic and not, are disgusted by homosexual acts.

>Nothing changed in terms of intrinsic response, heterosexual men both homophilic and not, are disgusted by homosexual acts.
yes, but they're not getting arrested or beaten in broad daylight (well, it's frowned upon)

How is getting arrested or beaten "human nature".
Human nature is about instincts, emotions, tendencies and traits.

I love how humanaturefags think that anything good comes out of outer space probably and doesn't belong to human nature while rape and murder and theft and slavery and exploitation and suffocating your best friend in the woods because he kissed that pretty girl you liked behind your back and then had the balls to fuck her too is apparently written into our DNA by the hand of God.

They are getting arrested. They are called pedophiles. They are getting beaten, tho mostly thru bullying. Very high suicide rate.

>muh human nature
lol, what is this the twentieth century?

>I love how humanaturefags think that anything good comes out of outer space probably
No.