Historical European martial arts:

Because European martial arts hardly ever get the media they should, they are just as, if not more, advanced in some aspects than Asian martial arts.

Getting pretty sick of social justice cucks everywhere I go.

Why?

It is.

I like Liberi too, however, he is a little too early for my tastes. I'm more of a Mair, Talhoffer or later Kal man myself. - I find German school fits me more so than Italian.

I literally don't care. I'm European, I like my heritage, I want to learn HEMA, as I spent my earlier years learning modern European martial arts or Asian martial arts, which have manifest within the former too. So now, it is a period in my life within which I want to know my martial heritage. Take your diversity and stick it, European culture is more superior.

A lot of Asian martial arts, such as the various ryu schools, kung fu, and Mongolian wrestling have all been pretty well preserved. While the European arts fell by the wayside for a multitude of reasons. This has required a lot of pouring over old fencing manuals and trying to salvage what's there. Compared to a jujutsu school or something where there's a living lineage and a legit instructor who can teach you everything.

I think it's pretty neat what these people, most of them being hobbyists, have managed to reconstruct out of something that was essentially dead.

Are you German by any chance?

My main interest is the late 14th- early 15th centuries, which is when he was active, and also the most successful part of the hundred years war for England. Also, it's a really good, integrated fighting system.

You arent the brightest candle on the cake arent you? First off why are you interpreting so much in my posts and second why are you falling for the other posters who are just being ironic SJW-posters?

British, sorry.

So, what attracts you to the Italian school?

Because there is enough of that, ironic or not it has become more than a joke, it is eroding Western culture for the sake of cultural Marxism and I am making sure you are aware it isn't welcome in any form. I do not care for your beliefs, I do not care for your liberties, if you wish to shitpost, take it to or . Thank you.

here's a nice amateur channel about HEMA and more

youtube.com/user/SkallagrimNilsson/featured

I'm all ready subscribed to Skallagrim, I like his HEMA videos more than his socio-political discourse.

Well im pretty sure your autistic attitude and overreacting puts way more people off from trying HEMA.And regarding your le ebin cultural marxism if you want to /pol/post take it to . Thank you

>Skallagrim

I'm vomiting thanks user

But I mean really he might have good information but I cannot fucking deal with his humor, geek culture bullshit, and overall persona. I'd say Matt Easton is probably the best you're going to get when it comes to Hema shit on youtube.

Well the only other Italian master in the same "line" as Fiore is di Vadi, and he wasn't a student, he just had access to the di Este dedicated manuscripts from Fiore, so I wouldn't really call it Italian school.
Fiore was taught by and taught both Italians and Germans,since he was born in the HRE, and travelled a lot, so he picked up a lot.
The main reason though is that he is teaching you to survive a fight and kill the fucker as brutally as possible, whereas i find a lot of German stuff very tournamenty. This difference is best demonstrated by the fact that feders aren't welcome in our company, only steel blunts and wasters for fucking about.

P.S. Fiore covers grappling, dagger, sword vs dagger, baton, sword in one hand, sword in two hands, sword plays at different distances, sword in horseback, poleaxe, spear, vs spear, spear on horseback etc, and a lot of the techniques are interchangeable between weapons.

Who are you to say where he should post? If you want to virtue signal go to >>>/reddit/ >>>/tumblr/

Autistic as fuck and just as bad as LARPers

Matt Easton is ok, I mean, he used to be in The Exiles before he went to do his own thing, but i don't like how he positions his feet in postas, and his excessive use of feders for Fiore.
Other than that he's sound

yeah i like his HEMA vids too

He literally told me where i should post.Who is he to tell me?

So you're saying Martial arts are autistic?
I don't suppose you're a 20 stone neckbeard by any chance?

it gets a little overwhelming i guess but his vids are decent

Autism? Perhaps, it certainly isn't larping though. I would actually say sport fencers are the bigger larpers by pretending their antenna tag has anything to do with real fencing.

I get the reason its more because of muh traditionz WE WUZ WARRIORS N SHIT instead of genuine interest and out of enjoyment.

Says the person pushing /po/-esque behaviour, nice attempt at tu quoque. By and by, I doubt my dislike of social justice, a fairly common trope upon Veeky Forums, will put anyone off. Not to mention, you sound rather salty for being closed down. One more, take it to or .

The informative aspect is why I watch him.

My issue with HEMA in general is they rarely deal with the multiple combatant side of armed or unarmed combat.

Fair enough, at least it is on topic.

Depends on who's teaching you
At our group we do simulated surprise attacks (Fiore teaches defending with sheathed sword before drawing (in emergencies)) and surprise dagger attacks against one who is unarmed and can't react until they attack.
Also sparring 3v1 is useful, but I agree that most manuscripts don't cover group combat, but you must realise most of those surviving are about self defence/duelling while not in armour.

My point is that i didnt even mean it in a social justice way or some shit like that and you just blew it way out of proportions almost as if you were triggered.

Indeed, my take it on it was that much of HEMA is formalised technqiues to be used in duels or the occasional self-defence, rather than combat on the field as within such cramped conditions many of the techniques would become redundant or dangerous to utilise in regards to your comrades. Much of multiple combat being that want to be out of the way, or chaining them, so that each person acts as a shield.

Your point being? You're typing, yet apparently have no purpose to your words, please go and do something constructive user. And before you ask, it is late in my country, therefore, I am unable to do anything constructive and cannot sleep due to the heat.

>Skallagrim
Now I know the kind of jackass who talks about " eroding Western culture for the sake of cultural Marxism"

>I do not care for your beliefs, I do not care for your liberties,
*tips fedora*

Its my late in my country too. Let us just put it to rest now im not really in the mood to continue. Good night.

>edginess the post

Goodnight.

>genuine interest
What is non genuine interest? Who judges what is and what is not genuine interest? You're moronic.

And anyone who cares about the opinion of losers who probably have no hobbies or traditions of their own and derive their life's purpose of trying to stop the ones who do from enjoying themselves has got to be very weak minded.

>posts on a history board
>shows distaste at practical historical research
Checks out, you're a confirmed moron.

not as cool as SCA cause they can't into formation battle.

Why not learn both?

larping

>British, sorry.

CLASSIC

you can, but you might have more fun in SCA

they do martial training alongside general medieval Euro reenactment like wenching, making period clothing, titles, food, tourneys, etc.

SCA seems like good fun when you're 40. You get to drink with a bunch of lads, maybe hit on some chubby woman who loves sewing, and hit eachother with boffers for a few hours before getting back to the heavy drinking. There are worse ways to spend a weekend.

you tend to get a little punch drunk to be sure.

40 is kind of pushing it though, it you don't have the conditioning for sustained armored field combat already.

>European martial arts
>literally the first reply is "err guis what about asian martial arts" like that's a rare or obscure discipline

Fuck off you cunt.

>tfw you live in the netherlands and you see this thread

Man, tripfags are always shit.

I actually do japanese swordsmanship but I like watching hema stuff on youtube

This is why we can't have nice things.

I like Academy of Historical fencing for sparring vids, they have lots of mixed weapon matches.

youtube.com/channel/UC_HtUzv9WIfxx31eYKDo4aA

The funny thing about swordsmanship is that it is almost impossible to be a truly experienced swordsman - as in truly experienced in fencing with sharps to the death, simply due to how dangerous it is. No matter how talented you are, everyone will do a fatal mistake every now and then and unfavorable circumstances could make anyone lose easily, no matter how skilled.

The reason why the HEMA masters and manuscripts of the past are valued is because they actually used swords in real fights back then. But how often would a fencing master been in an actual fight even back then? Not many times I'd say if they were alive and not terribly crippled. Mostly they did what we do now, train with blunts (and with training equipment inferior to modern HEMA equipment) and try to reason how a fight with sharps to the death/incapacitation would have actually gone. So maybe they weren't all that much more knowledgeable about fighting for real with sharp swords.

Please, literally never post again. Anywhere.

>antenna tag

Oh that is golden, gonna use that one.

They get fucking mad.

>European culture is more superior.
>more superior

whats wrong with doing a different historical sword art and watching videos of matches and demo's?

Yeah fights with sharps were not that uncommon if you went looking for them. Not always to the death either, often just till a doctor said you were too hurt to continue or you drew blood.

youtube.com/watch?v=n5w2Mh6CyXo
just browsed aroudn youtube, this looks fun as fuck

>But how often would a fencing master been in an actual fight even back then?
Some of them, e.g. Hans Talhoffer, supposedly made a name for themselves as champions in judicial combat, fighting as a stand-in for one of the combatants, which is one of the reasons why many of the sources have sections dedicated to judicial combat. After all, to become fencing master at a princely court you need to be somewhat famous. Otherwise I essentially agree, while it is fairly well possible to become good at the competitive, sports-like aspect of swordsmanship, the true nature of real combat remains hidden and only known through the writings of people who did engage in serious combat.

There are videos of people who killed with the sword. There are even a few videos of epee duels (to first blood) on youtube.

the fact is two idiots could have a sword fight and one of them die, it doesn't make the winner better than the guy who has trained for twenty years and never done shit like that

>the fact is two idiots could have a sword fight and one of them die, it doesn't make the winner better than the guy who has trained for twenty years and never done shit like that
If they're idiots probably not, but an already experienced swordsman who went through the stress of a duel would have the edge over one who hasn't. And if he went through multiple fights with sharpened weapons he'd definitely be more confident and knowledgeable of how differently a sharp sword behaves, where to aim and how to cut specifically, how exactly armour needs to be circumvented in serious combat, etc. than someone who has never done so.
I'm by no means saying that non-serious practice is useless - it's not like people in the past didn't practice when they weren't fighting 'earnestly' either. However, I maintain the position that a lot of things cannot be easily practised and are essentially lost to the realm of theory - even to unbroken lineages like certain Japanese schools; especially lots of things related to fighting on battlefields. A sharpened sword will bind differently than a blunt sword, the proper edge alignment and vigour that needs to go into a cut that actually harms your opponent may not always be maintained when in practice or competition while in serious combat it is absolutely vital to survival. Not to mention the aspect of armour, e.g. using half-sword techniques to thrust the sword into gaps where the armour doesn't cover is something that cannot be practised all too easily without putting oneself in severe danger to the point where it would be outright silly. One might argue that one can practice these aspects individually in the form of test cutting or target practice, but they are only put together in serious combat and the guy who has the non-serious practice as well as the serious experience definitely has the edge and a foundation of knowledge which the guy who only has theory is lacking.

iirc, Fiore said he had to fight at least five serious encounters to the death and came out untouched, that's beyond luck to me. He also said unarmored fencing is too dangerous and that he would gladly fight three times in armor rather than once out of armor.
We have records of japanese founders going into battle and killing a certain amount of people (since those gave rewards and we know they got those). Iizasa Choisai Ienao killed literally dozens of people in battle, retired at 60, died at 102, the guy was beyond lucky.
We know of some european masters and general swordsman who killed people by the dozens (François de Montmorency-Bouteville killed more than 25 persons in duels to the death, Jean-Louis Michel beat and killed 3 officers and wounded gravely 10 others in a single day without breaking too much of a sweat). Luck is always part of a fight, but that doesn't mean some people were extremely good and experienced at fighting with swords and were somehow one-man-army.

That's also why "modern schools" that teach swordsmanship are ridiculous, except maybe some like Toyama-ryu, because none of the people who designed the stuff got to test it in real combat with real intent.

notorious boxers & duelers from what i understand

Look up William Marshall sometime. Man foguht five men alone in his first action, rose from nothing-a horseless knight- to regent of fucking england through his skill and valor, and was still leading cavalry charges as a geriatric. From the front.

He died of old age, and said he could recall besting around 500 knights in tournaments on his deathbed.

Bear in mind, tournaments in this era were mounted melees between teams, fought with sharp swords and lances.

>Look up William Marshall sometime
Already read Georges Duby's book, it's not like he's a cryptic figure either.

So how do you get into HEMA?

You look for a club near your location ?
communitywalk.com/user/view/81443

Ask yourself what sort of weapon you'd like to train into (longsword, sword and buckler, military sabre, rapier - and rapier and dagger - being the most common), what period are you mostly interested in ? what country's martial history are you into maybe (Italian and German are the most common but French, Spanish, and British are totally reachable as well).

I have barely any knowledge of the subject, it just seems like an interesting /asp/ with nothing similar around. Thanks for the link.

desu when I think of German swordfighting it's mostly landsknechts with zweihanders.

I agree that for a swordsmen that kind of experience is super valuable.

On thing on those living lineages though, not all the material was designed by the founder. Alot of it was designed by their successors, who perhaps tested it in duels or even just sparing with wooden weapons or shinai. Or even more uncharitably just rechained movements in the original material.

Often alot of the work was done by the student of the founder. Araki ryu for instance was just as much the product of the founders student as him. He said the founders teachings had no real order to them so he systematized them.
Ono-ha itto ryu did not start using oni-gote till their third generation.

hahaha only fucking losers play with swords lmao get a life u nerd

>desu when I think of German swordfighting it's mostly landsknechts with zweihanders.
In fact, most of the large two-handers stuff is mostly if not only spanish and portuguese, plus a couple of italians, there aren't sources for those in german.

If you are mostly interested in it as a subject, not for study, there are some sites which contains a lot of information, like HROARR or Wiktenauer, but it can be pretty serious and academic.

>On thing on those living lineages though
And that's why they are "living lineages", the evolve through time... It's not like they pretend (actively) otherwise.

German sword fighting school > French > English > Spanish >>>>>>>>>>> Italian

> It's not like they pretend (actively) otherwise.
Some of them do actually

That is if you like to get stuck in the 15th century...

Maybe a bit unfair since Meyer is cool and all but still, guy has plenty of Italian influence, he is almost italian.

Give names then please.
Anyway, even with these kind of sort of obvious things, I'd still favor a living lineage to a dead one who needs to be reconstructed from books and such.

Not to imply that what the HEMA movement is trying to do and does is worthless, quite the contrary, it's definitely the harder way. Problem is you don't know what you don't know and you can't know when you're right. Doesn't stop them of doing very sensible and valuable things though.

My understanding is TSKSR under Otake maintains their kata are all tenshinsho. I cant think of any of the top of my head but I have heard a number of people suggest their style is virtually unchanged since the time of the founder.

I am actually on your side on the living vs reconstruction issue

I was mostly kinda joking, hell if I know what each of the schools teach

I know they exist and I've read them up on Wikipedia, but that was so long ago I forgot what the actual differences between the schools were

Also muh mystical Asian martial arts defeats inferior barbarian "hash-n-slash" of westerners.

The Katana's steel has been folded 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000X

>Not Fiore
I'm disappointed in you user