Plebian

>tfw patrician upper/lower split master race

I thought brosplit was an upper/lower body split?

how?

>rows/chin-ups/dls
>lats aren't trained every workout

Well you thought wrong

Candito's 6 week is easily the best gains I've made on any program.

That second week tho. Fuckin' kill me, senpai.

PPL is master race for natty aesthetics.

Did you read the book, user?

PHUL master race

PPL MASTER RACE checing in

Because PPLPPLx is too much volume unless you roid, and if you roid there are better programs for you whatever your goal may be, given that most roiders are focused on either bodybuilding or strength.

PHAT is PPLxULx with an unnecessary amount of accessory variation and too much accessory volume for the vast majority of natties. PHUL is just ULxULxx with poor macrocycle potential, there are again better programs.

>patrician
lifts

>plebs
don't lift, criticize lifting preferences

>Transpatrician

>Elder God
Do strange heavy as fuck lifts every single day while screaming and building NATTY aesthetics.
Eric program when?

breddy gud list

phul is u/l

>poor macrocycle potential

what do you mean by this

i don't know if this link'll work, but Nuckols wrote a document on Bulgarian-style training for natties called The Bulgarian Manual (strongerbyscience.com/bulgarian-manual/ or if you don't want to give him your email address sendspace.com/file/46uwkn)

i'm currently transitioning across to it. it's a lot of fun

Chin ups and rows are not part of the program. Chin ups are an optional tweak later on. The original SS program uses cleans instead of rows, and no, deadlifts are not a lat movement, but I was being generous and including them as one anyway.

ABABABx

x=rest

A=Chest, Shoulders, Triceps, Abs

B=Back, legs, Bicep, Abs, Traps

>all muscles 3x per week
>involves all compound lifts
>why wouldnt you do this...

That's a lot of work if you want a good amount of volume every training session.

>better
Pavel's Bear
80%x5, 72%x5, 65%x(As many sets as possible with 1 minute rest)x5
on Deadlift and Press variant
go home. enjoy god tier hypertrophy.

i thought i was the only one
the back off set on squats wrecks me every time, I go on the next week and i still progress on the 5th week but i can never finish 6 or 8 or however many sets with only 60 seconds rest

how about ULXPPLX

I thought u/l split = brosplit because you always hear normies going "leg day today brah xDD"
What is a brosplit then?

a split routine with individual days for small groups of muscles. there's no precise definition. one such split might be: chest, back, quads/hams, arms, calves/shoulders

I don't see RTS style or

M O M E N T U M
B U I L D I N G
U I L D I N G
I L D I N G
L D I N G
D I N G
I N G
N G
G
On that list.

fuck how new are you
also
>mfw people talk about leg day on Veeky Forums
truly the normies have taken over

With a linear design and such high volume, it's going to be difficult to up weight on a weekly or even biweekly basis for an extended period of time before accumulated fatigue forces you to either decrease weight or deload.

Now, if you have reached a point where you can handle this workout week-in, week-out and don't feel like trying to up the weight because you're happy where you're at, it's a perfectly fine program, same with PHAT. To be honest, programs like PHAT and PHUL tend to be more fun for most people than more stringent training regimes, so that's a plus for them. They're just not optimal for progression.

God help you if you get 10 reps on the AMRAP. Fuckin' brutal shit. I always feel like dying.

I agree with you completely actually. Upper lower splits are the perfect hybrid/balance of strength and mass, with the most optimal volume for growth and recovery.

What kind of split would you do if you were limited to gymnastic rings and a barbell w/ 285 lbs in plates total?

I'm bored of SS and want aesthetics now. What's a good program if I can only go thrice a week?

stack.com/a/barbell-only-workout
check the second one out

Thanks mate I'll have a look

Swap legs for chest and that's what I do.

Legs and back on the same day seems sub-optimal. Too much overlap, and those are the heaviest lifts. Shoulders and chest are relatively easy.

The advantage of ABABABx is you get to hit everything 3x per week with good volume but without marathon full body workouts that take 2 hours. Truly the patrician choice.

oh and you can just do normal bench instead of the floor press

search up for a good 3x full body routine

add pull ups somewhere.
if you dont have any place to dopull ups just get one of those things that hang in the door way to do them

>ICF
>the creator looks like this
>isn't even the creator, he just took SL and added random shit
>people still follow it after he got exposed

This, I make strength gains very slowly on ULXULXX but it's fun as hell and I look forward to every workout so I give it 100% every time.

I've been on Veeky Forums for years but only recently did I stop being a fatfuck and go to the gym/start posting on this board

alphadestiny novice program.
read the faq

We already know this now gtfo my Veeky Forums

Really strange to post in an actual fitness related thread on Veeky Forums.

whats a good full body routine I can do often as possible, and fuck up the gym.

3 days a week isnt enough for me i need more and I want some crazy strengh shit

Haven't run it myself but from everything I've heard ICF is one of the only (if not THE only) good thing he's ever done.

2bh the most you should do fullbody is 4x per week and even that is too often for a lot of people. If you want to be at the gym more your only real option is U/L or (a well established, as in don't write your own) PPL

i do ULxPPLx UL being 5/3/1 based days and PPL for hypertrophy and assistance.. i just need more user. i want to be like eric bugenhagen just lift and rage everyday.. i need intensity for once

A brosplit is like this

>Monday Chest
>Tuesday Legs
>Wednesday Back
>Thursdays Shoulders & Calves
>Friday Arms
>Saturday Traps & Forearms

>not doing abs and biceps on sunday
>not having oblique day
>no eyebrow isolations

its like you want to look bad

Full-body master race. I give respect to Push/Pull, but I will never understand going PPL. What are you guys doing on those leg days, I don't get it.

What stops me from going to Push/Pull ABxAxB is the overtraining from AB. I understand pushing and pulling work different muscles, but they share one CNS, and mine gets fried when not having an off day.

I'm still doing an AxBxAxx arrangement of exercises:
A
>3x5 Squat (linear progression)
>4x6-12 Pullup (volume progression)
>4x6-12 Bench (volume progression)
>3x8-12 alternating French Press or dips
>3x8-12 alternating curls, hammer curls, or reverse grip curls
>3x8-12 wrist curls

B
>3x5 Romanian deadlift (linear progression)
>4x6-12 Overhead Press (volume progression)
>4x6-12 Bent Over Row (it might be closer to a Yates Row desu) volume progression
>3x12 heavy Shrugs
>3xfailure light rear delt flys
>3xfailure light lateral raises
>3x12 wrist curls (want to wear out my grip strength every workout)

Then do bulgarian lmao. That's what he does. You should do ya googles beforehand tho and really learn how to program it for yourself or the fatigue can really fuck you.

Hmm.. i dont know if my work will allow me to take advantage of that much time though.
also; my lifts arent nearly good enough for that. im barely scraping 1 2 3 4

also; whats an ideal full body program with deadlift/forearm/neck/core emphasis?

Naturally enhanced, those are pretty much the main goals of the program.

as much as I admire and respect alex, I feel he is too inexperienced to program for anybody but himself.

What should I do to look aesthetic?

I have the book mane (old version) it's bretty good, and the fact that each person running it chooses the exercises for themselves means that a lot of the programming actually falls to the person running it.

As for Alex he coaches people, and at the very least understands exercise science to program imo (at least for recreational lifters) + he's been lifting a long time and has tried a bunch of different methods on himself and others, so in general I trust his programming. Just my opinion tho.

Un ironically SS with accessories after the main movements.

Add in 2days of cardio which incorporated running, pull ups, chinups and every variation of pull up crunches and youre fucking set.

Practically anything that's not SS or a Powerlifting program.

Aesthetics = hypertrophy and low bodyfat.

Hypertrophy rep range is 8-12. Strength rep range is 1-5. If you're a male, you want a hypertrophic upper body and a strong lower body. If you're a girl, consider the opposite.

Focus on compound movements, then mix in a little isolation.

Finish your workouts with some cardio or yoga. Perform fasted cardio in the morning of your non-lifting days if you need to lose fat. Also do intermittent fasting. If you're a fat-as-fuck-fatfuck, look into keto.

Most importantly, never drink a soda again. Water, sparkling water, mineral water. Coffee in the morning is fine so long as it's black or just has a little creamer or milk (no whip cream, no caramel sauce, no starbucks shit). Aspartame diet drinks is questionable, but if it helps you transition off soda, then do it until you're good with just water.

Also you need to be Mewing and chewing gum.

These two are the only correct answers. Strength mixed with hypertrophy. If youre strong at a low bf then youll be aesthetic. To bad fit is fucking retarded and gets mad when they look like shit after a 1year bulk.

Why does no one here recommend Arnold's Golden six? Shit is fun as fuck.

Thanks user, still a dyel noob at the moment, not sure what'll make me a powerlifter and what'll make a sick cunt.

I love the rep range and the simplicity of only having 6 exercises. Most people want more variety though.

Two things I'm not crazy about are wide-grip bench and behind-the-neck overhead press.

Also, it's oddly missing lats. Considering how impressive Arnold's back was, I think he might have forgotten to mention some things.

Yeah I switched the chinups for pullups to hit lats, and I originally switched behind the neck for regular OHP, but started doing behind the necks 2 weeks ago and I'm not looking back, they are way more intense to me than OHP is.

It's like every fitness meme combined into one post (barring the soda stuff). What you retards need to do is learn about progressive overload and how that actually works. That should literally be the primary goal of any program you ever run.

Blows my fuckin mind how something so essential isn't understood by the majority of the people that lift.

Klokov presses are GOAT for working every part of the delt and significantly works the traps and core and obliques way fucking more.

Also I'm a lanklet, so wide grip bench and just about every exercise really for me.

Just remember to keep the legs in the strength range. They also help release more growth hormone into your body.

Just so we're clear... by progressive overload, you don't mean linear progression, right?

I hear all these SS guys conflating the two.

I think everyone knows you always incorporate progressive overload. What the fuck why are you so mad I think its implied that progressive overload is used.

Spotted the dial

That was shit advice. SS isn't even a powerlifting program.

I'm gonna break some shit down for you to help you not waste your first year or two (or your whole life) of lifting.

1. Do NOT write your own program at this stage. There are concepts you've never even heard of that that go into writing a good one. This isn't to call you stupid, but you literally do not possess the knowledge to control your own programming at this stage, this is where most people you'll see in the gym fuck up.

2. Progressive overload is what makes you bigger. It simply means doing more than what you did last time, e.g. more weight, more reps, larger range of motion. When you do this your body has two ways it adapts: Your nervous system get's better at coordinating your muscles to do the lift this is why when you first start some people are shaky when lifting but get more stable over time and your muscles grow because a bigger muscle is a stronger muscle, and your body wants to adapt to be able to handle the stress of lifting weights better. It does not matter what rep range you use to get stronger, what's important is that you do get stronger,.

This is how programs like SS work, as a beginner you can overload very often, SS takes advantage of this and shoots your strength up very quickly. These types of programs will maximize the progressive overload that you can achieve in the shortest time possible. Where SS isn't optimal is that it doesn't pay attention to anything that isn't a major movement pattern squat, pull from the floor, horiz/vert pulls and presses) and so doesn't develop muscles that are not major movers in these as effectively. The other issue people have with this program is that your weight is a function of eating, so they do shit like GOMAD and go into huge calorie surpluses and then wonder why they got fat.

The thing I would most like to point out is that you are not going to be big as a novice. You don't have lagging bodyparts because everything is lagging

>I'm gonna break some shit down for you to help you not waste your first year or two (or your whole life) of lifting.
>by recommending SS

Progressive overload isn't the same thing as linear progression, no.
Why do you think I'm mad lmao I just saw that the post was shit advice. The "hypertrophy rep range" isn't a real thing, progressive overload in any rep range will yield hypertrophy.

Should higher volume training be part of your program? Yes. Do beginners need to worry about it? No.

It also said you can separate hypertrophy and strength which if you understand how progressive overload works is laughable.

Only thing that was really wrong with the cardio thing was that it implies losing weight isn't a function of diet, other than that it's fine tho.

I'm not saying you have to do SS, you can do any program you want as long as you use linear progression to avoid wasting time. I just explained how SS works.

That guy also:
1) ran SS way longer than is recommended like a retard.
2) probably ate like shit.

That's basically what I expect someone who's approaching intermediate to look like. No one barring genetic freaks is going to look like a male physique competitor as a novice man.

>Progressive overload is what makes you bigger. It simply means doing more than what you did last time
This is only scratching the surface. Yes you need to up your reps or weight each time. But you also need to give the muscle enough time-under-tension instead of just popping the bar up and down on bench press. Also 3x5 with a lot of weight is going to make you strong, but it's not going to make you as big as possible. That comes from dropping the weight a little and going higher reps.

There's benefits in lifting heavy, to be sure. There's also benefits in lifting moderate weight, so long as you adjust the tempo and rep range.

But SSfaggots cannot get this through their skulls. So they keep doing a mere 15 reps of three exercises, three times per week. It's laughable. No one at their gym is doing what they are doing, and everyone around them is exceeding their gains, but they deny reality because of Rippletitscience.

>probably ate like shit
Which is what Rippetoe recommends.

"'Eating clean' is not a useful concept. Big Macs are." -- Mark Rippetoe

Yeah and if you read my post I said don't do that, dumb ass.

>You need to up your reps or weight each time
I literally said that in my post when I gave examples of different types of progressive overload. I jut use weight as my go to because it's the simplest one of theses factors for new lifters to understand and manage.

As for the rest a novice they really does not need to worry about rotating set and rep schemes, they will be able to achieve progressive overload without doing that and it's simply overcomplicating their training for no real reason. Periodization is only necessary after this stage by definition.

They should have some sort of higher volume work in their workouts to help increase their work capacity so they don't burn out after switching to higher volume imo, but that's a preemptive decision that isn't a requirement, just something that can help further down the road.

Same here, I look at it that I am slowly improving and going to the gym > not going

>I literally said that in my post when I gave examples of different types of progressive overload. I jut use weight as my go to because it's the simplest one of theses factors for new lifters to understand and manage.
Okay, so I've been recommending increasing within a rep range before increasing the weight. You recommend increasing the weight only.

That's nice. I happen to believe the average novice will lift with too much momentum, with too little time under tension, and will cheat their reps. I would take ten seconds to move a weight than two seconds. I believe this is more difficult. I also don't care about performing power cleans. I think linear progression is too dumb. It's better in my experience to increase reps before increasing weight. I also think that LP relying on tiny incremental increases of 2.5lbs is shallow. Increase the reps, then go for a 5lb or 10lb increase. The microweights just aren't as challenging to you as doing 5 more reps than the time before.

I think more people care about aesthetics, while Rippetoe has said he absolutely does not care about aesthetics, his program is designed to create high school wrestlers and football players. The only thing the average novice can get out of it is proper squat form, which is very well done in the book. But the program itself is a waste of time. More volume will maximize hypertrophy in novices.

Hypertrophy and strength are two separate things. I have seen very compact powerlifters, and I've seen very weak bodybuilders. Rep ranges for hypertrophy versus strength are not a meme, it's real. One rep maxes every day will make you stronger, but you will not grow as much tissue.

I'm recommending using weight because it's the most simple way to track progress, you're doing the same thing really just using a different method of increasing the weight. You just described a form of periodization m8. They both work but I use weight because it's a more streamlined process, and although the increases are small it adds up very fast, if you add 5 lbs a session 3x a week for a year that's a 390lb increase (obviously the program will stop working by then but you get my point). All I'm really trying to say is that all you need in a program for recreational lifters (read: not training for any type of competition) is progressive overload, and I try to make training as simple as possible to idiot proof it so they can learn during this period without any distraction.

I'm not here to say that SS is the be all end all of novice programs, it's not even the one I ran. I think novices should have at least some work in higher volumes.

P.S. the ability to separate strength and hypertrophy is one of the biggest myths in the fitness world, it does not work this way for naturals. You've seen weak bodybuilders because they're roiding, and you've seen compact powerlifters because they're limited in their ability to increase their bodyweight for weight classes, as well as extreme CNS adaptation due to the specificity of their training.

We're talking about a novice, not a competitor. The shit works, and that's all that really matters.

All these program arguments and no body pics.

if you search for 'Bulgarian' in this thread, you'll see a link to Nuckols's booklet. read it. the Bulgarian method doesn't necessarily take a lot of time in each session; it depends on how you programme it

don't worry about your lifts being inadequate for the method. they're not. if you're wanting to change programmes (because you're stalling, say), just try it. if after a couple of months you aren't making any progress: you've now learnt something about which methods of training work for you and can move onto something else

>Rep ranges for hypertrophy versus strength are not a meme, it's real.

it's worth reading this: strongerbyscience.com/hypertrophy-range-fact-fiction/

short version: yeah, the difference is real, but the effect is far smaller than people think. what matters is volume at an adequate intensity. SS is not a waste of time because it allows the trainee to reach an adequate intensity quickly. it's really meant to just set the foundation stones over the course of a few months and then have the trainee move on to something else, likely with a lot more volume. the reason why the programme doesn't periodise (which is essentially what you're advocating) is because the programme is meant to be minimal and effective: you just go to the gym and add some weight to the bar

the biggest issues with the programme are
>little volume, which is only an issue when considering volume qua driver of work capacity (vs volume qua driver of hypertrophy): it's a small issue and the development of work capacity is rapid, unlike the development of strength
>the diet advice (which is beyond moronic)
>people not following the programme as written and staying on it for too long, or not adding the optional chin-ups, etc.

'SS is a meme' is a meme

No one in this thread or on this board will ever do true bulgarian. They'll fuck their bodies up trying to do some shitty program that calls itself bulgarian and that will be that.

...
So yeah.
Suggesting SS for people who just want to look good, get swole and strong, is fucking retarded.
Got it.

yes, you're right, it's not 'true Bulgarian'—and the Bulgarian Manual states that on page 5. you will likely not fuck yourself up by squatting 4–6 times a week at high intensity, provided you autoregulate your efforts and transition across to such a programme sensibly. many people have success with high-intensity-high-frequency training, and others make no progress with it at all. it's not for everyone, but it's not for no-one

The bulgarian method destroyed more people then it ever helped. By an obscene amount.
This is a fact.

>...
>So yeah.
>Suggesting SS for people who just want to look good, get swole and strong, is fucking retarded.
>Got it.

i wrote
>what matters is volume at an adequate intensity
>SS is not a waste of time because it allows the trainee to reach an adequate intensity quickly

do you actually dispute either of those statements?

'true Bulgarian' did. i don't doubt that. i'm also not suggesting that anyone do 'true Bulgarian'; i'm talking about autoregulated HIHF training, which is far milder

Intensity means dick if you didn't actually build the work capacity to do kind of workouts needed to build the muscle in the first place.

You're not just going to fucking ERUPT because you're doing 8-15 reps of a heavier weight then the guy who's put in years of time.

Doesn't and never did work like that.