Why dont people use GZCLP?

>not having basic reading comprehension

tier 1-3 movements are what YOU choose. If you're a novice trying to get to 1-2-3-4 then you would alternate the tier one and tier 2 movements like in the program of OP's image (but with way more tier 3 desu)

Meaning if you included rows as something you wanted to train they would be a tier one movement one day, and a tier two movement another

Dumbass.

Belts make you stronger. Somebody that trains all squats over 70% belted will be stronger than somebody that doesn't.

Learn your shit.

This is untrue. There's no prerequisite weight you need to hit to be allowed to use a belt. I wish this meme would die.

Use a belt if you want OP

> lessening core strength when you're not even lifting powerlift weights makes you stronger

you retarded?

Now I know you're a troll. Ignore this faggot.

>5 sets of 3 reps with heavy weight
>deadlifts

is this a good idea?

> Lessening core strength
Lifting with a belt doesn't lessen your core strength. It gives it something to press outward against. If you want to get very specific, it let's you lift slightly more than your core could adequately brace otherwise, which also allows you to load your legs and body overall slightly heavier than you would otherwise be able to manage - increasing the load and increasing the volume and progress. But it will not make you weaker.

Yes. Better idea than sets of five.

>lat pull downs
>first day at the gym

stopped reading there

if you think a newbie has the CNS development to even fucking use their lats effectively you're delusional

a beginner who wants a strong upper body should do

bench
front squat
OHP/seated db press
bicep curl
bb row

that's it. Every workout, working out every other day for 3 months at a 500 surplus. First month sets of 5, 2nd month add extra sets of 8-12, workouts should alternative between "volume" and "heavy" days for a mix of CNS development and hypertrophy. Front squats are ALL a beginner needs for the posterior chain, the bench is ALL a beginner needs for triceps, front squats and OHP are ALL a beginner needs for the abdominal muscles

Curious as to why there is no mention of back squats?

And what are your credentials exactly? You're arguing against a program that has a very qualified person behind it.

And as far as not having the mind body connections for lat pulldowns, how are we going to get that? Hmm... If only there were isolation exercises to help you develop such connections with repeated practice.

Why a biceps exercise but no triceps?

Again, the exercises are chosen by YOU, this aint SS or ICF where the routine is straight up given to you.

it looks like a variation of 5/3/1 but you dont get to do that sweet 1rm every month

my bench has gone from 90 lbs to 95 lbs (counting the bar) since sept 12, while eating at surplus

I've been lifting 3x a week for almost 4 months on a modified SS

I don't know what to do

>SS

There's your problem, you need to increase both volume and frequency either through OP's image or through something like PPL

Hit the muscle twice a week is a generally good rule.

TLDR: Bench more

unless you play a sport or power lift there is no need for it

the routine is built heavily on upper body or for "aesthetics", meaning thoracic mobility is badly needed to offset this. That's done through the front squat. It is quad dominant, as opposed to the low bar back squat (which will build the hamstrings and glutes), preventing the "t rex" mode. It utilizes core heavily promoting abdominal hypertrophy and strength (moreso than the back squat). You can't cheat it, if your body can't keep up you will drop the weight, as opposed to the back squat where you can simply compromise your form

Triceps are worked through the bench and press, and since we are benching and pressing every single gym session, the triceps receive quite a lot of stimulus. On the other hand the biceps may receive stimulus from the row (moreso if supinated), but because the focus is "looking good", bicep isolation is added. Again, this is not a powerlifting routine.

Doing this routine will easily get you a 225 bench and 135 press in 4-6 months, given you don't completely neglect your upperbody after changing it beyond the first 3 months

What about biceps?

I think you would be progressing faster if you stopped counting the bar

>modified
There is your problem. Do SS like rippetoe told you to and you'll get stronk.

bench every workout, dumb faggot. Add more sets

>uhh guys my lift won't go up i only do it once a week and for a total of 15 reps xD wat do

>Doing this routine will easily get you a 225 bench
>4-6 months
I'd say that is faster then average progress and not what you should expect

it's actually not, and I put those (conservative) numbers because I myself hit a 225 bench after my first 3 months on it. You can see people on SS squatting 315-405 in the same time frame, but the thought of a bench focused routine giving you 225 after that period of time is unrealistic? The simple reality is that the more you train a muscle and the more you do a lift, the bigger it will get, the the more weight you will be able to move

Can you be more specific? Sets of 8-12? Sets of 5? Alternate heavy and volume days?

the first month should be focused on perfecting form, using appropriate cues for the "mind-muscle connection" and maximizing progressive overload from workout to workout. Don't even consider doing sets of 8-12 when you can't utilize or contract the muscles effectively (CNS)

After a month of 3x5 and your bench approaches the 135-185 range you can alternate "heavy" days (attempt a PR, even if you only do 3 reps its okay, lower the weight by 5 pounds and try again, and etc). Keep it going until you get to "light" weight, your reps should be 3-5, the focus is both getting over psychological hurdles and pushing your CNS

The alternative day would be using a weight that is about 10% lighter than your current "PR" and cementing the strength gains from the previous workout by doing a solid 3x7. When I did it I always added a final set of 135/185, usually for 10-12 (on both days)

This isn't SS programming, we don't go for a PR "every" gym session. You alternate the PR days (linear progression) with solid volume

instead of squatting every day I added pullups, dips, rows, curls, calf extensions, and abs

I used bench as an example, fucking everything has been super slow. Bodyweight dips have been at 8/8/8 since sept 9. Pretty much every other lift is the same.

I have a small frame and I'm weak. I have the body of a tall 15 year old. I'm like 5'10 130lbs

Why is it that you think you can alter the routine to make it more effective then it is? You can't, you don't know shit about training. The routine as it is works infinitely better then whatever retarded variation you can come up with. Your bench would be much better now if you didn't fuck around.

because I didnt want to be a trex?

>bench would be much better if i did more squats instead of dips

really makes u think

>not nsuns 531 LP to get huge and strong at the same time

Unireddically ronnit

>bb row
>implying
Maybe t bar rows, but i doubt its much easier to feel the mind muscle connection on bb rows than lat pulldown

I got the hang of it on like my 3rd time in the gym anyway

Question, for the last set AMRAP, how much weight should I put off and whats the rep range I should aim for?

1 lb and aim for 1 rep

Why don't people use it? Because it requires effort to actually make it good. The base template isn't good, and requires modifications to be viable. Also, it's sub-optimal for true novices, and is better implemented 3-6 months into training. Finally, you have to have decent knowledge on exercise selection to use it well, and plenty of people don't.

>base template

there isnt one, again it's exercises you select, the routine in OP's pic is just one aimed for complete newbies is all.

But yes you are correct that it's probably better implemented 3-6 months of a new guy doing SS, but in that case I'd recommend ICF over SL or SS any day simply because of the wide ranges of exercises and volume.

Or honestly just look up PPL and what each exercise targets using google and incorporate them here. As I said PPL and GZCLP are the top tier routines anyone should follow, its just a matter of preference for how many days a week you wanna be at the gym. I will however say that GZCLP's progression is much much more intelligently made.

But yes you are right in that the program isnt the greatest for complete novices.

GZCLP says to do as many as you can leaving 1-2 reps "in the tank"

AKA dont be a retard and go to failure, if you feel like one more rep is dangerous, get a spot, or stop.

As for weight it's the same weight you did the normal set with, so if you're doing 5x3+ of 135, the AMRAP weight is 135

The term CNS development does not mean what you think it does.

>base template
>there isnt one
So your question of "why don't noobs do this programme?" is equivalent to asking "why don't noobs simply come up with their own programme?"

Yeah, that always turns out great.

>sub-optimal for true novices
Oh, that language. Stop sucking Rippetoe's cock.

Because people are stupid. Veeky Forums is the place where beginners tell other beginners to do SS.

The "base template" as you call it adapts as the lifter progresses. You start with T2 being the same movement as T1 and you only have one isolation per workout. As you adapt over a few cycles and gain proficiency with the T1 lifts you then sub out T2 with variations of the main movements. You also begin adding 2-3 more T3 isolations for general purposes or to address weaknesses in the main lifts. So those modifications you are talking about are already built in and are added over time. As far as exercise selection goes, Google is a thing.

Is that program going to result in aesthetic gains or just weight on the bar?

what a fucking moron

so why haven't people posted progress pics/stats for this routine yet? why are people so sure it's a good routine? SS has been tested and proven for decades. what has this routine done?

probably because it's a few months old, but the principles behind it are solid and it's a whole lot more balanced than SS

we'll see some results popping up soon

>SS has been tested and proven for decades.

>probably because it's a few months old
so? it's a novice routine. people should have gotten good results by now.

it's true. there's a reason why it's still around after all this time.

it's still around because it reached meme status on Veeky Forums, it has fallen out of favor on most other lifting related websites/forums because people realized 3x5 bench an average of 1.5x a week is not in line with most people's lifting goals (to not look like shit)

people lifted for decades before SS was a thing and got great results as beginners, because you get great results on fucking anything as a beginner

>SS
>"""beginner""" """strength""" """program"""
lmao

>novice routine
Term invented by fat retard. There is no novice routines.

>it's still around because it reached meme status on Veeky Forums
Veeky Forums is completely irrelevant. SS has spread all over the world at this point.

> it has fallen out of favor on most other lifting related websites/forums
oh no!

>because people realized 3x5 bench an average of 1.5x a week is not in line with most people's lifting goals (to not look like shit)
this is the typical shit people who never actually complete the routine say, but the reality is SS actually works extremely well even for the bench, and because it actually works it will outlast all internet morons and fad routines.

>you get great results on fucking anything as a beginner
you get "results" on anything, but not great results. the whole point of SS is to give you great results. very few routines gives and average guy a 3x5 3 plate squat and 2 plates bench in 5-6 months, which SS does if done correctly.

this is the typical shit people who never actually complete the routine say

it would.
your pathetic untrained body cant recover from bench And dips.
do the goddamn program you imbecille.
gone from 20 to 75kg bench
40 to 115 dl
30 to 85 squat
15 to 50 ohp and im nowhere near trex mode
if anything my delts are proportionally the biggest

I finished the routine a couple of years ago.

but really nice argument, faggot. sure proved me wrong.

post physique and lifts so we can judge if your opinion should be taken seriously

my lifts after 5-6 months on SS were:
3x5x148kg squat
177.5x5 deadlift
3x5x108kg bench press
3x5x72kg press
shit power clean
around 12 chin-ups, don't really remember

post your stats then. if you post your physique I'll post one of mine from back then.

Peaking programs don't build strength, retard. They work different for different people. From 10 people who did SS 2 will reach some serious numbers for sure (those are fat or with athletic background) and that's why Rippetoe's cocksuckers will say "MUH PROGRAM IS WORKING, YOU DON"T DO PROGRAM AS WRITTEN!!!"
>you get "results" on anything, but not great results. the whole point of SS is to give you great results
Oh yeah, russian coaches make their trainees to do shit tons of volume and conditioning as beginners to create beasts, but some fat retard said you only should 3x5 for every lift and increase weight every workout.

And also. There is no place for beginner routines. If you run "intermediate" routine from beginning you will rich same results as one who run SS and then "intermediate" routine.

"What the internet dubs “beginner programs” DO have a place, and at one point in history they occupied that place well. These programs are excellent for peaking weight room numbers that had been lost due to periods of inactivity; this is why Bill Starr built his program for football players (which was eventually repackaged by Rippetoe, copied by Mehdi who swore he got his from Reg Park, frankensteined by Blaha, etc etc). Bill Starr’s 5x5 was a shotgun blast to quickly rebuild some lost strength with the understanding that the athletes were engaged in some ADDITIONAL training (off season football workouts), and therefore volume needed to be kept low to accommodate training demands of the athlete. Keeping everything else fixed and only adding weight everytime one trains is an excellent way to recapture lost numbers by rapidly redeveloping the skillset under increasing loads. However, we are talking about conditioned athletes who simply lost some numbers due to having to shift their focus to a different physical ability; not lifelong couch potatoes with zero musculature and coordination."

>shit powerclean

YNDTP

"So what is undertraining? Undertraining is the current craze sweeping the lifting internet nation. There are many examples of this, but typically it can include trainees only perform 3-5 sets MAX for a movement for the day, and of those sets, no more than 5 reps, trainees only lifting weights 3x a week, trainees performing ZERO cardio, conditioning or athletic work, and in general a complete lack of exertion and physical stress present in training. Parents and coaches beware; your child or protégé could be undertraining under your very nose! There are peddlers everywhere pushing this stuff on young naïve trainees. They use words like “minimal effective dose of volume” and “CNS burnout” to trick young minds into following their devious and perverted ways.

How can you tell if your child or student is undertraining? Know to look for the signs! Symptoms include a complete lack of physical development despite months of “training”, claims of being a “hardgainer”, claims of “eating everything and not gaining weight” or needing to “dirtybulk”, having to rest 5-8 minutes between sets in order to make their workouts last an hour, a lack of gym clothes in the laundry, an abundance of freetime to argue on the internet about what program is optimal, CARING about what program is optimal, a complete lack of awareness of what an assistance exercise is, zero conditioning base, a complete set of SBD gear and Olympic lifting shoes, having an Instagram fitness handle, and a physical appearance resembling a sweet potato someone left in microwave for 4 minutes too long."

mythicalstrength.blogspot.com.by/2016/04/an-argument-against-beginner-programs.html

just shut up you moron. you have no clue what you're talking about.

>farts

he's exactly right and you're exactly wrong

I'm from Russia and we have similar to SS program - Faleev's program. It's 5x5 with no accessories. It has linear weight progression.
In this video Faleev's program criticized by powerlifting coach and strength athlete (bench is 210 kg):
1) no assistance and accessories - very bad for beginner;
2) linear weight progression is only good for peaking strength after pauses in training;
3) no different rep-ranges, low volume.
youtube.com/watch?v=rly9Lrz0INA

this is what beginner programming from coaches who have trained world champions in powerlifting look like

jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/
powerliftingtowin.com/sheiko-novice-routine/

>customizable
That's why. Beginners need to be told exactly what to do and follow the program, not to fuck with it.
Beginners are morons.

Ive been reading about this one and it looks pretty good but i i dont if i should do a reddit routine

So what is it that the Russians do for beginners? I've seen some documentaries on Russian athletes and they train with insane homemade farm implements. I've always wanted to know how those guys got started

see
>Head coach of the Russian powerlifting team from 1999 to 2005, which was undefeated in international competition, winning 7 European and world championships with every athlete achieving not less than a bronze.
>Developed 9 IPF world champions, who received 40 gold medals.

It's usually bench/squat, bench/deadlift and bench/squat days with assistance work, all 4x12 (deadlift 4x8), increase weight, lower reps to 4x8, then go to 5x5. Repeat if you can, test 1 rep maxes. Then do percentage based schemes, lot of them are popular - Sheiko, Golovinsky, Surovetsky, Muravyev etc.

forum.athlete.ru/t8324/

A
Squat heavy 5x5
Bench light 5x5
Weighted dips 3x8
Goodmornings 3x10
Calves 2x15
Core

B
Deadlift 3x5
Rows 3x8
Shrugs 2x20
Block bench press 3x5
Hyperextensions 3x15
Core

C
Squat light 3x5
Bench heavy 5x5
OHP 3x8
Close grip bench 3x8
Goodmornings 3x10
Calves 3x15
Core

Its shit and made by a roided vodkanigger.

>farts

>I added pullups
they are already part of SS
>dips
they are part of SS
>curls
part of SS

Just read the fucking book.

>I'm supposed to read all that without being at least moderately interested

No thanks

Stop shilling your shit program

>not benching 2pl8 the day you set foot in the gym
lolling at your genetics

G S L P
S
L
P

>there isnt one, again it's exercises you select, the routine in OP's pic is just one aimed for complete newbies is all.
So then, it's asking a novice that has
>no lifting experience
>no programming knowledge
to make his own program, which is literally the last thing any novice should do

>very few routines gives and average guy a 3x5 3 plate squat and 2 plates bench in 5-6 months
neither does SS; except for fatsos or people that have an athletic background
agree on the rest

GZCLP does not have vertical pulling... Where do I incorporate weighted pullups? And am I reading it right if I take it as saying I should be able to do TWENTY FIVE body weight pullups before adding weight? Wtf?

Also, I assume there would be no issue in subbing weighted chest dips in for bench press, as I fucking hate bench press and frequently lift alone at home? I don't plan to ever compete, I do this strictly for my health.

I'm not a beginner, I've fucked around the past year or so and not been serious, but I've been on a keto cut for the last two months and plan to go into hard bulk mode in 2-3 weeks. I've been basically using a routine where I have a push, a pull, and a leg each day, 3x a week, and then do 2-3 accessory lifts after the compounds. My stats follow:
Age: 29 BW: 189lb HT: 5'11"
OHP - 145x5 FrontSq - 185x5
Dead - 300x5 Dip - BW+30x5
Pullup - BW+11x5

Good time to switch to something like GZCLP? I think I like the idea of it, but I'd like to better understand how pulls like Pullup, Yates row, Pendlay row etc. fit into the routine. It almost seems like they're treated as accessory lifts, which I don't like. I want a strong back, and in my personal experience (neglected most pulling other than Deadlift for the majority of my lifting career), heavy deadlifts are not enough.

I'm just gonna report all GZLP threads from now on.
the shilling has reached ridiculous levels.
literally every day multiple times a day some guy posts threads shilling this god awful program.
it worked on rebbit, hope it wont here

you do vertical pulling as your first T3 exercise on bench and ohp days, and rows as your first T3 exercise on squat and DL days

do you actually think cody is coming here and shilling these routines, or do you think people who have actually been lifting for a little while and know that SS isn't the end all be all beginner program are trying to help point people towards something better?

About 1/10th of people doing SS aren't doing it correctly. Then they come on the internet and bitch.

Read the book. Read it again. Then read it once more.

Understand what strength is, understand the stress/adaptation cycle.

Stop fucking around with the training equivalent of a "Choose your own adventure" book. Why do you think you know more than professionals who've been in the industry for years?

SS isnt the end all be all, but nice try projecting
you can suggest something better than SS, there is, this is not it.
I'm calling out shilling because I came back to fit after some months I wasnt here and literally every day this routine gets posted, either in its own threads or spammed in routine threads,
and considering 95% of Veeky Forums hates it rightfully so - because it's a bad novice "routine", the only explanation is that a small number of people have decided to shill it non-stop

9/10ths*

because said professional achieved mediocre numbers in equipped PL and trained nobody of note, and the program tends to produce piss poor results for anything but squats and maybe deadlifts because it's a misapplication of Bill Starr's routines to a bunch of geeks with no athletic background

I'm not defending GZCLP but what you're saying is extremely biased regardless
Just because it worked for you and it didnt for somebody else doesnt mean that they didnt put in as much if not more of your effort.
that is ignoring a universe of variables that could have an effect on progress
it's pretty much common knowledge everywhere but startingstrenght.com that SS has a problem with stalls and deloads, if you are a novice skinnyfat with 0 mass and 0 athletic background
yeah, if you played football in your youth you will hit 3pl8 squat in 4 months, no shit, what is GPP....