MTG LEGACY GENERAL

>Reanimator
I googled a list, and this looks like something I could actually throw together. I actually have some of the cards, like Elesh Norn and Iona, and I've built various reanimator decks in EDH quite extensively.

Next question, if I do sink like $2k into this deck, would it really be worth it? I'm a budget jank-master so it seems to run a little counterproductive to my instincts, but if it's fun and playable with other people, I'd be more than happy to set it up.

Is there a quality guide on building legacy doomsday? Do you still make a pile and labman yourself? I'm not as familiar with the extremely powerful removal in this format, so it seems a little... fragile for my liking.

You can run a budget Reanimator by going BR instead of UB. It'll save you plenty of money on the landbase. BR sacrifices durability and resilience for explosiveness, so if you're okay with that, go for BR. I think UB is around $2k but BR should be around $900 maximum.

>BR reanimator
>$900
Sweet Moses Malone, that sounds perfect. Do you have a list I could look at? I could probably build that shit with my first pay cheque. Are there any other fun budget lists I should be aware of? I have pretty reasonable google-fu, but basically everything I find is around $2k to assemble.

While the Eternal Masters set + SCG stopping weekly Legacy coverage have caused prices for a few things to drop a bit, overall legacy is a pretty great investment. I have bought into and sold a few decks over the past 8 years or so, and never lost money. If you sink 2k into a deck now, in 2 years if you xecide to pick something else up, you should easily be able to cash out for at least that much, most likely more.

I will never understand people who come into Legacy and play stuff like Junk, Jund, or Maverick. This is a format where you can draw your whole deck turn 1, reanimate any creature with free counterspell backup, make 300 mana and Blue Suns Zenith someones while deck, get storm counts over 30, lock people out of playing magic, cast Armageddon, break suspend cards with Shardless Agent, play Dredge in all its glory, and so on, yet peeple want to drop $2k to play 2/1 First Strikers for 2 cmc and 4/5's for 4 cmc. Its like goimg to a buffet and just eating some oatmeal.

mtggoldfish.com/archetype/legacy-black-red-reanimator#online

here u go f@m

mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=32&meta=39&f=LE

>play Parfait
>utter silence
No one has ever been intrigued by this deck.

Doomdsay in legacy (sometimes known as Doomsday Fetchland Tendrils or DDFT) is primarily a storm deck, with lab man as a backup plan.
>is there a quality guide for ddft
Well not really. The mtgsalvation primer is decent for a starting point but the deck is deep and it really just scratches the surface. There are whole forums dedicated to the deck if you'd like to sift through them. You can also take an existing list as a starting point and just play it and lose a lot until you start to get the hang of it. This is my baseline list: tappedout.net/mtg-decks/baseline-ddft/
>fragility
It is nowhere near as fragile as it looks if you know what you're doing. In fact of all the storm variants it is arguaby the best at playing through hate. The tradeoff for this is a very slight speed decrease and a sharp increase in difficulty of play.

2nd place at GP louisville the other day
mtgtop8.com/event?e=14415&d=286247&f=LE

and yeah, 2k is about average price for most legacy decks. there are some cheaper things like burn. LED dredge is also very reasonable. I think eldrazi (currently a top deck) is right around 1k, possibly less depending on what deals you can find.

...

>If you sink 2k into a deck now, in 2 years if you xecide to pick something else up, you should easily be able to cash out for at least that much, most likely more.
I'm sold. I was an idiot and bought into the whole Theros/Tarkir/BFZ nonsense, then when the prices crashed as things rotated, I almost quit magic all together because I didn't understand what happened. As long as I can get most of my money back, it's worth it in my opinion, I just didn't want to spend enough for a cheap car on cardboard, only to have it become totally worthless on me within 5 years.

Thanks anons, I'll take a look through the lists and see what I can throw together, but from what I've seen so far, I actually have a lot of stuff that I'd need, other than the landbase.

Now, the 12 lands thing is setting my 'tism off, because I'm used to 36-40, but I'm sure with practice I can figure out how things work, and since it's a t1 combo deck from the sounds of things, it should be fine.

I think Doomsday is going to be my backup plan. I'm going to have to do a lot of research to really understand the interactions, and based on your suggestions, it seems like something I'm going to have to bang my head against until I figure it out. Give me time user, I might come around.

>Eldrazi
>$1K
Oh man oh man, I could maybe build that? I have an eye of ugin, all the titans, a shiny eldrazi temple, and a few bits-and-pieces hanging around. The list I saw mainboards Endbringer, and I don't quite understand what's happening. It seems a little... winmore unless there's something I'm completely missing. Either way, I had almost the entire list outside of the manabase, so I think I could maybe build this deck AND the BR reanimator one this pay.

Because I can't play goyf + SFM or bob + library in modern. And memerange has it's own charms. winning against the cheese decks you mentioned with what most consider "fair" magic provides a satisfying play experience.

I find the minor things like how to sequence dropping my hate and pressure during the early turns where it matters most to be challenging. Do I drop goyf and apply pressure or cast hymn to tourach? do I leave up abrupt decay mana or try to slam lotv?

Every game feels intense when your opponent can go 0 to 100 in one turn and you have no stack interaction. Then sometimes you have hilarious games like when your opponent has the turn 2 show and tell dropping emrakul so you deluge for 15 and win off of lingering souls

endbringer is for the long grindy games because it draws cards. drawing 2 cards per turn in a deck full of fat ass bombs is pretty gud

Eldrazi is more of a aggro deck, runs a tone of lands that tap for 2 mana, so a 2 drop is your turn 1 play, 4 drop is turn 2, etc. Dent expect to hardcast any kf the big guys like ULamog with it though.

As far as # of lands, you need to look at the number of mana sources instead. The GP list runs 12 lands, 4 Lotus Petals and 2 Mox, for 18 mana sources, + a playset of Dark Ritual.

Do your thing, Im happy peiple play those decks because it makes Legacy more diverse. Theyre just not my thing when there are so many other options.

>winning against the cheese decks you mentioned with what most consider "fair" magic provides a satisfying play experience.
my nigga

Lmao holy shit what the fuck is this from?

Isn't hatebears the cheapest deck in the format from a long-term standpoint because it runs literally 0 reserved list cards? The biggest outlay you have is Karakas at what, 80? Wastelands are 35, Vial is 15...

Well if you ever have questions about DDFT, I'm happy to bloviate about the deck forever. It's pretty much the only legacy deck I play.

Its still nowhwre near the cheapest, all those $15 cards add up. Its also the most vulnerable to price drops from reprints, so its the least safe investment financially.

youtu.be/dzq6Q-43Tpc

>deck 1
m.youtube.com/watch?v=fO4iR9EhJv4
>deck 2
m.youtube.com/watch?v=0E-LeLk6ZXg

Deck 1 is miracles and deck 2 is some kind of combo, probably belcher or oops

I bet it 's SI

>Opponent tries to Brainstorm
>Point to Trinisphere
>They sac the fetches they were gonna use to shuffle away cards to pay
>Look a little flustered
>Point to the Chalice on 1
>Opponent is visibly upset and puts the Brainstorm in GY
>Untap, Wasteland one of the Duals they fetched without thinking
>Beat for 5 with a Lodestone Golem
No better feeling.

Sir are you trying to imply that trinisphere, chalice, and lodestone golem are fair?

As fair as can be! They affect both players :^)

>opponent fetches jitte with mystic
>call judge
>point to leonin arbiter

M I R R O R
A
S
T
E
R

I dunno.

>Opponents first tunr on the draw, drops a dual into Glistener Elf/Noble Hierarch/Deathrite
>Play Swamp, Smallpox his whole entire turn 1 away, + a card from his hand.
>Opponent plays fetch, gets basic Island, plays Brainstorm, sighs and slumps shoulders, passes back.
>Sinkhole
>Laugh
>Pox is love
I dont even care if its a teir 2 deck, Sinkholing someones only basic Island in their entire deck is a special kind of torture.

Are you telling me you don't pay mana for your spells and think thats fair?

Where do you guys stand on opponents who clearly don't understand interactions? The number of players I've seen paying tax effects on top of Trinisphere is staggering. It hurts me a little inside every time I have to tell then their spells cost less mana, but I know it's probably the right move.

you don't have to tell them. as long as you're not intentionally misrepresenting, it's fine.

the rules-lawyery way to answer the question 'do i have to pay sphere of resistance on brainstorm with trinisphere out' is 'sphere of resistance says you pay one more and trinisphere says you have to pay three'

both of those statements are correct and worded the way that the effects layer when determining the total casting cost of a brainstorm with sphere of resistance and trinisphere in play.

I let my opponents make mistakes. how do I know they're not floating mana for something else when they overpay like you described? it's not my job to play the game for them.

I'm just doing what the cards say officer.

"Sir, do you know why I pulled you over?"
"You were doing 0 in a 3 Mana zone"

...

>mfw judge dqs me for doing 0 in a 3 mana zone

I dunno man, thalia and stoneforge mystic are pretty fun to play.

Prices for paper or? If so Rishadan port is at 80€, vial at 30€ and karakas at 40€. I'd say manaless dredge is cheaper.

>I play RB Reanimator
>never draw anything that allows me to reanimate or constantly fucked by FoW/counter play
>I watch someone else play RB Reanimator
>they always go off turn 1 or 2 and are never interrupted or opponent never has spot removal

Fuck everything.

You should try not being bad at magic

few years ago cartoon network tried to revive the looney toon series. it was like a cartoon version of seinfeld, most of the internet hated it. Personally I liked it, I had a kek and a lel at the episode when daffy joined the marines, but it was canceled after like, 2 seasons. because everyone was upset that it wasn't just the same old wacky XD so randum cartoon it was in the fucking 60s

They made a few music videos centered around the characters in the show and played them as commercials.

Sounds like you need to mulligan better.

Belcher is love, Belcher is life.

Might as well ask here and bump the thread: anyone knows if there will be coverage of GP lousville? I'd love to watch some legacy.

Lol. GP Nocoverage already happened. No video coverage. Written coverage was 1 shitty article with a pic of someone lightning bolting a Griselbrand with a caption about how only legacy gets that crazy. Only released decklists down to like top 16 or top 32. Literally the qorst coverage of any major MTG event i have ever seen.

Guys, I need to make a tough decision.

Cephalid Breakfast
Alluren
Leovold Nicfit
or Solidarity?

Leovold.

I will never understand people that can't have fun with fair, interactive decks.

youtube.com/watch?v=RLG1ys2CGcI

Ah, that sucks. Seems like a weird decission to be honest.

LAND TAPPIN
CREATURE CASTIN
SORCERY SPEEDIN
COMBAT PHASEN

Solidarity. Always.

I have fun with normal fair decks. I think Pox fits that definition, it has no crazy combos or hard locks, it just a variant of mono black control preys on greedy manabases.

My point was that I couldnt ever see myself playing something like Jund, because why play what is essentially 95% a Modern deck with one or two upgrades, when there is such a huge number of archetypes that have no equivalent outside of Legacy.

I like playing hatebearsish stuff in Modern. I'm also happy other people play that stuff because that just adds even more potential decks I may get to play against. If you want to eat oatmeal every day good on you. Im going to have sushi and steak and fried chicked and so on.

High Tide? It's High Tide.

>How's it going legacy friends?
Great!

I haven't played legacy for years, but I always check the event locator. Finally had a hit and went to a 20-man event with Eldrazi. I lost 1-2 to Turbo Depths and then slaughtered Burn and UW Miracles.

That store is going to have legacy every week, so I'm really happy that legacy has finally returned to my state (Utah).

This looks like the shit that the manchild in our office sends me from time to time.

youtube.com/watch?v=3Faw4mj1Vfo

I would've thought this would be the one for High Tide: youtube.com/watch?v=b7srmGm_sZE

Brainstorming in your upkeep with a Sylvan Library down seems like a judge's worst nightmare.

Why is that?

youtube.com/watch?v=hZDstZ1-EAI

High Tide.

With Chains of Mephistopheles in play.

Because the player could put back cards drawn from Brainstorm to Sylvan Library's ability, so he'd need to keep up to 6 cards separate from his "hand". Enforcing something like that to players who don't know what you're talking about is going to be a headache.

I'm no rules guru, but wouldn't those triggers be processed separately?

So if I understand this correctly, the player would have to separate the three cards drawn with the brainstorm, then put two cards back, and then sylvan library triggers in your drawstep and you could choose two of the three cards drawn with brainstorm too?

>Using the word "trigger" randomly
You're right, you're no rules guru. Sylvan Library states you can put back any cards drawn this turn. Brainstorm drew you 3 cards which would all need to be separate to the cards you didn't draw this turn if you wanted to put any back to Sylvan Library.

The catch? This means your opponent potentially gets free information as to what you did with your Brainstorm, and they can act on this before Sylvan Library's trigger resolves as they must pass priority for the trigger to resolve.

This guy is just a straight up asshole. I've notified my L2 of my interest in becoming an L1, and I ain't dealing with this shit.

Yes

>Using the word "trigger" randomly
I meant two items on the stack. The Library trigger and the Brainstorm effect.

But I just tried it on MODO and now I get it and see why it's an issue.

Have any examples of where the free info would really matter?

Does that mean you have to make potentially three piles? Brainstorm, chain triggers three times you discard three, draw three. Then drawstep, you draw your first card and don't have to discard it. Then you draw two more and have to discard draw again and then you have to put up to two back. or am I missing something?

Does anyone even play chains?

After a Git Probe or Duress or something where you saw their hand. Especially if you're playing Cabal Therapy, you know at least some live targets to call still.

Chains treats "draw x" as seperate draws, so
>cast brainstorm
>discard, draw, discard, draw, discard, draw
>keep new cards in seperate pile
>put 2 cards on top of your deck
>draw 1 card
>discard, draw, discard, draw
>these cards in a third pile
>optionally put 2 cards from either new piles back on top (or pay 4 for each you dont). It is very possible you discarded all but the last card you drew, in which case you would either put that card back or pay 8.

Im not a judge, so dont quote me.

>pox
ftfy

What?

Next time a judge thread comes up ask him what he thinks of library

>buddy's deck
youtube.com/watch?v=1Q3ub1SUYfg
>my deck
youtube.com/watch?v=_RHWeViFmA8

There really should be more 12 post players. I mean, who dosnt like shitting on miracles AND casting big dudes? Also can somone try and sell me on U/G post? I just play the green version. I tried the U/G build online but it just felt like it was trying to do to much.

>tfw I get bullied by miracles
Why do they always have exactly what they need?

Fetchlands are like drawing 3 cards for us. Pair that with brainstorms and ponders and we get a pretty good percentage of our decks seen per game. It's why we can afford to run so many 1-ofs in side and main.

Scrubbed it up at the game store tonight.

>2-0 vs ANT
>new player, didn't really know what he was doing with the deck and I had iona early each game

>1-2 Miracles
>g1 I have turn 1 iona. G2 im too slow and he had jtms ready for iona and I don't recover. g3 surgical snap surgical wrecks me, die to snap beats

>1-1 miracles (ran out of time)
>I have turn 1 iona and he scoops. G2 karakas bounces iona, griselbrand and iona are dead in the water. Blow an exhume on griselbrand anyway and draw 14, don't find any of my needles or a non-legendary to shit out. G3 surgical and snap and karakas again, at the end I got him to 5 life with tidespout tyrant and he finds terminus before my last turn.

>0-2 BUG TNN
>g1 mull to 5 and keep garbage hand because I'm tired of shuffling. G2 get blown out by surgical and lose counter fight then wait for death's sweet embrace

How is it a deck can always goldfish boss hands but I always get garbo when I sit down to play. Also something crazy was how I consistently never drew anything I sideboarded, even in long games. Half my deck was in my graveyard and I didn't see a single needle or abrupt decay in any of the relevant match ups

Little disappointed my only win was against someone who actually don't know how to play their deck

Variance is real senpai dont let it get you down. But do try to think about ways you could have played/built better. Could you perhaps have mulliganed more aggressively for those sideboard cards? Maybe your sideboard is unfocused and you should put in more of certain cards?

Went 2-2 tonight. Punted round 1 game 1 to burn (cracked LED for black instead of red, I could have dug up PiF to combo out without need ad naus) and lost game two to turn 2 eidolon turn 3 eidolon (with turn 4 pyrostatic pillar coming)

Round 2 was against BR Reanimator, he just never found an entomb either game.

Round 3 was Sultai Delver, game 1 he didn't find any countermagic. game 2 he goes turn 1 relic of progenitus, I go turn 1 carpet of flowers, use the mana to pay for a spell pierce and then flusterstorm his flusterstorm, and 16 goblins get the job done.

Round 4 against Eldrazi, he gets turn 1 double mimic, turn 2 smasher, turn 3 smasher. Game 2 I mull to five to find a first land, but manage to therapy out a double chalice hand. Still can't get past runner-runner oblivion sowers.

Definitely going to cut xantid swarm, adding a 2nd surgical and a 2nd echoing truth. Any other thoughts?

Am I one of the last players alive who just makes his own decks and plays for fun?

I tried that, Esper-deathblade- ad nauseum- miracles

Shit was fun and so bad

This is the reason why Stax is my favorite Legacy deck. You made me proud, son.

Not at all. That's just what I use commander for. Fun casual decks for fun casual formats, srsbsns competitive decks for srsbsns competitive formats.

I'd love to brew something, but I feel like without the chance to test much and with a limited card pool I'll be in the perpetual 0-X bracket.

Been theorizing a Gifts Ungiven storm deck, but it's in the early, early stages of development and appears to be going nowhere fast.

>Definitely going to cut xantid swarm, adding a 2nd surgical and a 2nd echoing truth. Any other thoughts?

I definitely agree that Xantid's not worth it. Every time I tried it, it ate a Force (not terrible, but not fantastic, either). Though it's the only answer to a ridiculously stacked hand, that's really the only thing I feel like it does well.

I have a pretty divergent opinion about Echoing Truth from that of most of the Storm community. People keep telling me Hurkyl's is too narrow because it only hits artifacts, but I feel like Echoing Truth is too narrow because it doesn't hit targets with differing names. So Chalice-Thorn still locks us out, and I think Chain of Vapor is generally better against single targets. Truth is definitely a good card (and it's obviously better against tokens), but I don't think I prefer it to more specialized bounce/removal.

Surgical sounds like a good plan if you're dealing with lots of Reanimans. I don't run it at present, but that may change going forward.

I'm still interested in testing Slaughter Games against Miracles.

After goldfishing doomsday for a while, my only question is: why do you run a lotus petal?

Is there a situation where you want to slip it into the doomsday pile, or does it just make it easier to play around wastelands and mana disruption?

I've ended up cutting gravehate from my sideboard entirely. I found that it wasn't doing enough.

primarily Petal is used in some piles. The opportunity cost of running it is low, since it's perfectly fine outside of piles and can sometimes let you win a turn earlier. But there are a handful of situations/piles where you cannot win without a petal. Imagine a situation like this: your hand is Dark Ritual, Doomsday, Burning Wish, and you have SDT, Swamp, Island, Vocanic island on the field. You know your opponent only has Red Elemental Blast for interaction. You can cast Doomsday off the ritual, and pile LED, LED, LED, Petal, Burning wish. Top draws LED, you wish for your sideboard draw 4, and you need the petal in the pile to recast the SDT. This pile and variations on it aren't that uncommon and good for beating red blasts.

Interesting. Thanks!

My logic with echoing truth is that most of the time when people play hate (at least locally) they prefer to double up on it rather than diversify, which I can punish better. Recall also doesn't stop sanctum prelate, thalia, leyline, or iona on black.

As cute as surgical is, I don't know if it's fast enough to be worth the slot - I assume you name CB with it?

Also as an aside, our meta was hella fucked up, I don't think any two people had the same deck tonight. The field was:
>ANT (me)
>Burn
>Sultai Delver
>BR Reanimator
>Eldrazi
>LEDless dredge
>Elves
>Loam Depths
>Tezzerator RoflThopter
>Worldgorger Infinite
>2-Land Belcher
>Painter
>D&T
>High Tide
>Miracles
And one deck I just don't remember seeing. There were 16 of us.

>Brainstorming in your upkeep with a Sylvan Library down seems like a judge's worst nightmare.

Nah, it's just awkward because the guy doing it has to call a judge and the judge has to watch what cards he drew and what cards he put back due to the mess of hidden information happening.

I love Sylvan Library, it's a candidate for my favorite Magic card ever, but boy did they template it in an awkward way. If it was just "ATBO your upkeep look at the top three cards of your library and put them back in any order, then you may pay 4 life up to two times to draw a card" we wouldn't have problems.

See this, this is the reason the format is dying, unless your in a gp with money on the line there is zero reason for you not to tell them how the interactions work

Even if you beat them you didnt actually win, you fucking scummed them, this is the kind of shit you dont see at the professional level unless your an asshole like gerard Fabiano, the most enjoyable part of legacy is playing with new people and if you want people to actually stick you need to not scum them out

Its small things, like when someone plays a needle against me and names LED the first thing I tell them is that its a mana ability and it doesnt actually work and unless they were assholes beforehand ill usually let them rename

Seriously guys were better than that, keep that shit in modern general