First draft of the white rares for the set. Still a solid design. The indestructible on the lands is a bit much and makes this design somewhat boring. No risk, just value.
Blake Lopez
Damn, dead thread
Julian Wilson
I have an idea for a set mechanic, where the set is based around cards in hand. >Dream X: Reveal up to X cards from your hand, then gain an effect based on the number of revealed cards with a certain quality. Examples: >Dream 5. $CREATURE gets +1/+1 for each instant or sorcery card revealed this way. >As you cast this spell, you may dream 2. If you do, $SPELL deals 2 more damage for each Mountain revealed this way. >1GG: Dream 3, then for each green creature revealed this way, target creature gains Trample until end of turn. Good idea? Bad idea?
Mason Russell
Seems like balance would be tricky. Revealing cards isn't really much of a cost, so Dream abilities would be basically free. Unless you required very specific reveals, which would be awkward. Maybe if you did it as an ability word with a cost, like bloodrush? Something like:
Dream [NUMBER]-- [COST]: You may reveal [up to N] [CARD TYPE] when [This etb's/you cast this]. If you do, [EFFECT for each revealed].
Ryder Collins
Actually, it'd end up being a lot more like Forecast than Bloodrush.
Benjamin Myers
It's not intended to be a cost, but a bonus effect - on cast, or as a triggered ability, or as an optional additional cost. There are lots of cards right now that have "reveal things from your hand" as a bonus. Also, it's not intended to be limited to card types - you should be able to reveal as much of your hand as you want, up to the N, of course.
Also, there's the context, which I kinda forgot to mention. This set is going to be a "cards in hand" themed set, and also an exercise in "how many ways can you interact with the cards in your hand without actually casting them" and "how many ways can you interact with your opponent's hand that isn't forcing discard." To that end, I'm including mechanics like Forecast, Splice (not just onto Arcane, but onto Creature or Instant), and Evoke. I'd appreciate other suggestions.
Jackson Gonzalez
Okay, I came up with this, which is some weird bastard child of Forecast, Bloodrush, and Imprint. Feel free to alter it to fit your needs, or ignore it if it isn't quite what you were going for.
Chase Rivera
Fair point. What do you suggest? Just removing indestructible would make the lands too vulnerable imo. Maybe make him cost 4GG and make him and the lands 5/5 instead of 4/4?
Jack Sullivan
Eh, not really what I was intending. Dream's not supposed to be an ability on its own any more than Scry is. In fact, Scry is a pretty good analogy - it's an effect from a triggered or activated ability, or an on-cast effect. The only difference is that Dream then has an effect based on the revealed cards.
Samuel Adams
Remove the indestructible and make the animation a may ability. Now it requires decision-making on both player's parts, which is more fun, and allows for prediction and counterplay. 4/4s aren't inherently vulnerable, and such free value should have an associated risk. Okay, so more like this? Do I have that right?
Aiden Diaz
>revealing cards is not a cost
but having them in hand is.
eh. the only way to tell it is to design a bunch of cards and play it out, but i would *guess* that you can't have it eat all the design space, because the game is better left on the table, where we can all see stuff and interact with it. it also creates memory issues for the opponent. they would end up being strongly build-around cards that might not be so great alone.
i would use it as a low-key mechanic, just as gimmicky and niche as aftermath in amonkhet. perhaps design 15 cards around it and that's it.
James Butler
i agree with that guy: it's a 8 damage trample vigilance guy at 5cc that let you have a lot of blockers and free up 1 mana each turn.Giving it a downside can only be healthy, making the ability a may makes it more intuitive
Luis Lewis
>but having them in hand is [a cost]. No it isn't; it's a resource. If it were a cost, it would require using that resource in some way that is inherently finite (like discarding cards or tapping lands). Revealing is repeatable with no associated cost or loss of potential, and therefore not inherently finite (lands can only be tapped once per turn, while cards can be revealed any number of times). Having the right type of card in hand to reveal for a specific effect is a matter of luck, not a matter of cost.
Noah Ortiz
And deckbuilding, don't forget deckbuilding.
Yes, this seems right, although the wording might be changed. >When $CARDNAME enters the battlefield, Dream 2. For each creature card revealed this way, $EFFECT. More compact, doesn't take two lines, easier to understand.
Tyler Peterson
So, I tried to install MSE. However, it won't let me create a new set - mainly because the "Card Style" window when I select Magic as "Game Type" is empty. I just installed it, and confirmed opening it. All the card styles are there in the x86 Data folder, they're just not showing up. Suggestions?
Christian Carter
Make sure MSE isn't in your programs folder. Download and install all of the card style updates.
Brandon Peterson
It really needs to be added to the OP but you shouldn't install MSE in the default folder. Put it in its own folder on a different drive or at least outside Windows or Program folders because Windows doesn't allow modifications to stuff in those folders and MSE needs that permission so it'll run like crap otherwise.
Speaking of the OP, it needs to be updated to include evergreen changes and a section on feedback and thread etiquette. They are low population though now these days that we can't let people post cards without commenting on other cards.
Landon Walker
Still need to do Darkseid. Not much to explain with this one though.
Still looks good.
Not bad, but I agree with Time user. Get rid of Indie on the land.
>RW01 Meh.
>RW02 Seems pretty powerful.
>RW03 Cool, but I feel like 1WW for all that is pushing it. Then again, it doesn't work by itself, so I could be wrong.
>RW04 Kinda odd. Unsure about this one.
>RW05 Seems OK.
>RW06 Seems OK.
>RW07 Eh, seems fine.
Zachary Gomez
Boring. Make it reveal the top card of each players library, then you can choose one of those cards and pay any mana equal to it's cmc to cast that card. (worded differently, and maybe with an activation cost) Maybe makes it red instead of blue.
Juan Turner
That did it, thanks.
Also, how do you get the new M15 card formats?
Brandon Ramirez
It's a Future Sight that lets you cast from every library; I think that's pretty cool. >Maybe makes it red instead of blue Kind of a dealbreaker; it's the flagship card for my GU faction. If you have some GU suggestions, though, I'm all for it. Thanks for the feedback. So they're generally solid all around? >Omega Beam Seems fine, although black having a way to get rid of artifacts and enchantments, even indirectly, strikes me as at least a little odd.
Ayden Brown
MSE forums have them. Just go to Additional Downloads in the sidebar and grab what you want from there; it links directly to the forum post that has them. You also have to install the Beleren font from there too to get the right font for m15.
I asked last thread about this card and the concept/reasoning behind what the ability does, and I'm still curious about it. Care to elaborate? The two modes just seem like odd sides to the same coin is all.
Sebastian Torres
Darkseid. Eh, don't really have a lot to say, just Parademons and some good abilities I think make sense for him. Unsure on the tokens though, both the P/T and if they should ETB attacking.
>Thanks for the feedback. So they're generally solid all around? Pretty much. RW02 seems pretty cool, but making him very expensive helps. Screams draft bomb though. RW03 I think you need to keep an eye on. The more I look at RW04, the less comfortable I am with putting it at 2/W. That's the only one I feel like needs a change right now.
>Omega Beam There is Silence the Believers which exiles Auras. I'll probably just make it 2BW though.
>Talir Odd ability. Not entirely sure if I like it.
Adam Robinson
Here, have a reprint. >I asked last thread about this card and the concept/reasoning behind what the ability does, and I'm still curious about it. Care to elaborate? The two modes just seem like odd sides to the same coin is all. Sure thing. So, in the first set, the UR faction's leader had an ability that exiled cards from libraries and let you cast them when he attacked. In this set, his faction and the RW faction have aligned, and he imbued the RW faction leader with his power. Mechanically, the idea was that the ability gives you the option of increasing your board presence if you whiff on a card but, since you have to cast the card immediately or lose it, the decision is still a pressing one. >The more I look at RW04, the less comfortable I am with putting it at 2/W. That's the only one I feel like needs a change right now. Why is that? >Darkseid Damn, he's backbreaking. Better annihilator. Still, appropriate for the huge 7BBB cost, barring reanimation.
Isaac Turner
Fair enough. I didn't know the connection between the UR guy and this one, but I recalled this dude from last set so it was a bit odd to see him. Makes more sense to me now. I don't see a problem with him power-wise or anything, just that I wanted some background.
Darkseid WOULD demand to be a better Eldrazi wouldn't he. He does need some way to play around him though... hm. Nonestly? I don't see him having Trample. The permanent exile is enough on that front. He's too austere in my mind to just rampantly cause collateral damage, though you could justify it by saying it's just how unstoppable he is, but again, exile ability. That at least lets you delay him while he monologues at the pitiful whelp sent to stand in his way about how beneath him said whelp is.
Reposting in the hopes it doesn't get overlooked this time. I'm having a bad time getting feedback lately.
Jeremiah Butler
>Why is that? I find it hard to put into words, but basically all the advantages it has over Elite Vanguard. Also, I've been thinking about Convoke. Imagine having an opening hand of four of these things and one Plains. You could hardcast one then Convoke the rest onto the battlefield. I think there's a reason Convoke is only found on creatures with CMC 4 or greater.
>Darkseid Sounds good, will remove Trample. Might give him the Darksteel Colossus graveyard ability.
>Uthmir Raider Eh, seems like it would be a pain to keep track of. Also, you'd have to specify that the face down permanents aren't 2/2's, since that's what happens to them normally.
Henry Diaz
>you'd have to specify that the face down permanents aren't 2/2's Why? They are 2/2s; that's their default stat when face down and not in exile. I had a bunch typed out last thread about it. The idea is that each color can seize different permanent types based on what they are allowed to interact with, and hold them for ransom. The ransom is a card, and the permanent's controller can "reclaim" it at any time. The cards are 2/2s while face down because that represents angry peasants/priests/denizens/whatever that have gathered to seek retribution from the interlopers, and the permanent's controller has the choice if they prefer the body or the original thing they had, creating interaction and decision making.
Ayden Allen
>Seize Why does it turn lands and artifacts into creatures? That part seems flavorfully unintuitive. Come on, user, Elite Vanguard is old and busted. >You could hardcast one then Convoke That's the idea; I wanted a creature that could be convoked cheaply and aggressively. I don't think the Christmasland scenario of having all four in hand is something to actively plan against--cards like Burning-Tree Emissary and Priest of Urabrask exist. I could nix the vigilance, but I really want to keep the 1cmc convoke concept alive.
Camden Bailey
>Why does it turn lands and artifacts into creatures? That part seems flavorfully unintuitive. Ah, I see now. That makes more sense.
James Perez
Though I guess it's fair that WotC does put that 2/2 thing on their own cards so I should have too, even if it's understood by us and by the rules. That's my fault on that one.
Isaiah Hill
Loyal Warmount is undercosted - 2/1 vigilance for W is already a really good deal. Being able to pay 2 instead is also a substantial bonus. Getting to convoke it out is just nuts.
Justin Miller
Flying and first strike makes the attack trigger so safe. Getting something when you don't cast the card also goes against red's impulsive nature.
Isaac Kelly
Oh, I assumed you wanted them to be useless permanents when Seized.
Yeah, mostly because this.
Liam Howard
If I add the reminder for 2/2, how would you propose I do it? >"To seize a permanent, turn it face down as a 2/2 creature. Its controller may turn it face up at any time. If he or she does, you draw a card." or "To seize a permanent, turn it face down. It's a 2/2 creature while its face down. Its controller may turn it face up at any time. If he or she does, you draw a card."
Also kinda bummed the flavor didn't come across on its own. If it has to be explained, it's probably not a good design, is it? Shame, I like seize as a concept. I think I'm starting to get spent on failed cards and concepts. I dunno why I still post anymore.
Already commented on these a bit ago. Good to see the circlet change.
>RW01 Mass gustcloaking is pretty cool, but I always had a soft spot for it. represents the "desert raider" hit and run thing pretty well given that it has Ambush. Flavor is spot on for me. >RW02 Eh, I dunno about this. It's awkward to me since it makes flying tokens. If it were regular 1/1s it'd be a bit less demanding of a choice, and like with the mana generating green fatty you have, I don't like utility on big bodies because it'd make new/inexperienced players stress over the best course of action too much. >RW03 Seems fine, but too cheap. >RW04 This I like. I dunno about Vigilance though. It's kind of on the edge. Needs playtesting, truth be told. >RW05 Neat. White getting a super combat trick is just fine by me. >RW06 Compares well to Nomad's Assembly, so that's fine by me. >RW07 Mega Oring? Hm. I'd make it heavier white to compensate. 2WW.
Cameron Campbell
>Getting something when you don't cast the card also goes against red's impulsive nature. That's why it isn't just red. Also, the decision has to be made immediately, as soon as the card is exiled, which is in line with red's impatience.
Dylan Powell
Since it's a "warmount" he could change it to be like Loyal Pegasus.
Parker Thomas
Seize is essentially "draw a card, sometimes". the opponent has too much control over how it plays out.
Gabriel Martinez
I think it means a lot more than that, but not everyone is going to like everything, so that's fair.
Juan Cooper
>I think it means a lot more than that Explain then
Easton Reed
Already did here . I don't really have much more to offer than this so if that doesn't sell you I guess I can't sell you on it, which is fine. You like what you like and if you think it's garbage then that's your prerogative.
William Morris
>Rewind: UU3 >Instant >The game's state is taken back to the beginning of the current player's turn just after their Untap step. Tapped cards are untapped, drawn cards are placed back on top of their library, triggered abilities are untriggered, and permanents in the graveyard are removed as if the turn had never happened. The only thing not affected by Rewind is any cards that were tapped or played to cast this instant. Exile this card.
Anyone think of a better way to word this?
Nolan Gutierrez
R8 friend's design
Austin Harris
Yeah, to not. Seriously, this is impossible to track without dedicated judges or unbiased third party observers to keep track of which cards were drew when, etc. It's a huge pain for no appreciable benefit to the game.
Gavin Kelly
Permanent control effects aren't black or green.
Joshua Gonzalez
>Permanent control effects aren't black Unhallowed Pact Olivia Voldaren Captivating vampire
that's just off the top of my head
Nathaniel Robinson
>Unhallowed Pact Reanimation, which is different. >Olivia Voldaren Red. Also, Wizards bent things for vampire tribal flavor. >Captivating vampire Again, vampires.
Control Magic effects aren't monoblack.
Joseph Baker
I also agree sieze seems a little weird but viewed very simply it kind of makes sense, though I cant imagine it any color besides red and blue to be honest. Maybe black since it also has punisher mechanics.
Is there any reason you NEED the functionality of the owner being able to flip at any time? It feels like itd be easier to template and understand if it just happened on the activation and they made the decision immediately, and it also wont have to gum up the board with additional things players have to keep track of. Itll also feel way more red to me since itd be in the vein of browbeat and such.
James Ortiz
do you guys print your cards or is it just a hobby?
Luis Roberts
I tend to agree with The middle ability should have something to do with webs, maybe like the ones Arachnus Spinner makes or maybe web counters that do something. -3: Put a web counter on target creature, then you may tap or untap that creature. Creatures tapped this way do not untap during their next untap step.
A spider planewalker that creates a web on the board and them manipulates things stuck in it would be cool.
Parker Gomez
...
Jacob Mitchell
...
Wyatt Brown
Urza free spells in green. What could go wrong?
Aaron Price
>RBU I'd be fine with it in Grixis. I agree that W and G are a bit sketchier but they also have precedent in enchantment and artifact removal so seizing those would at least be explainable, but if it did go five colors, it'd be the least in those two if at all. >functionality I did it to prevent it from being too good or feelbad for the opponent, but if we think that an immediate decision is better, that's a possibility. I dunno if I agree that it "gums the board up" since you have to keep track of Morph and Manifest and you have to keep your face down cards clearly demarcated from each other as I found out a few threads back per the official rules. So it's more complex to be sure, but I don't think moreso than Morph and its family of mechanics. >feel more red I didn't design it with red particularly in mind, just that the card I made was red since it seized lands and artifacts; two things red can interact with, so I'm not sure it has to ape red mechanics more closely, at least not because of that anyway.
All in all I like how it works as it is, but if you have some wording to throw at me, I'm game. Speaking of wording though, any thoughts on how to include the 2/2 reminder? I can't quite figure out how to cram it in there comfortably.
Nathan Baker
I can't speak for anyone else, but it's just a hobby for me, even if I'm bad at it. I entertained the idea of printing my sets out a long time ago, but I only finished the one and nobody cared about it so I figured I'd save the cash and pass on it. Gave up doing sets entirely, just do singles and concepts now, and it's just a thought exercise more than anything. That and I like giving feedback to others, but feedback and the state of these threads is a sore spot with me at the moment, so I'll leave that alone.
Matthew Ramirez
that's nice user, you should at least print some of them on paper and play with a friend who doesn't mind trying different stuff. i had a bro who'd come up with different commanders for both of us and we'd play each other with them.
Easton Brown
Spider tribal, any ideas?
Connor Miller
I'd be cheeky and say go to the archive and look at the 2-3 people who did it before, but that's a bit too cheeky even for me. What ideas do YOU have?
Liam Bell
A somewhat cheeky implementation of the conquest mechanic. Flavor being, once they've got the supplies they need from raiding, they aren't going to take more than they need / risk it but the instant they have want again they can go nuts.
So it's either a risky lockdown spell, a recovery spell, or a risk/reward pump spell.
Idunno if it would even see play in limited but I think it's nifty.
John Rogers
blackand green can steal creatures...their own way.
Hungry Flames is the same card without the planeswalker clause.
Ethan Wright
I hope that's a compliment.
Joseph Scott
I like the flavor of this (if the spider bites you it lays its eggs in you, then when you die the spiders come out), but i dont love it mechanically. How about something that makes your spiders/deal damage to other creatures and make this give deathtouch to them? Maybe even make it jund to get those sweet red spiders and give them the ability to ping creatures or players. Maybe thats too easy.
Julian Martin
Also relevant youtube.com/watch?v=99hDl0eQMR8
Wyatt Walker
Eh, yeah, pinging with DTouch seems too easy.
Jayden Lopez
Spider Bite 1g Instant Target spider you cobtrol gains deathtouch u til end of turn and deals damage equal to its power to target non-spider creature your opponent controls. "Dont let the spider bit'cha where da good lawd split'cha"
Elijah Martinez
Hobby. Setmaking specifically. I love conceptualizing and designing groups of cards to work together and form a (hopefully) cohesive whole.
Hunter Sanders
...
Robert Martinez
A big abdomen themed spider lord is pretty cool.
Blake Sullivan
...
Ryan Ramirez
Another go on this. Mostly just messing with P/T and keywords. Formerly 3/3 with Indie and Haste, now just 2/2 with Indie. The token ability I definitely want to keep, just tinkering with some minor wording variants.
Interesting. Not sure if it's interesting enough to be a commander by itself though.
Do you play WoD? Anyway, I like the design. You can't just keep the counters around forever, you have to start placing them eventually. Seems like it could be effective if used well. Pretty cool.
Andrew Reyes
This is the reminder text I'm using for this mechanic, but something I really dislike is that it's really fiddly for something so simple and wizards already thought Madness was too weird and apparently complicated. What I'm wondering is, is it worth having backwards compatibility with Heroic, or should the simplified version (something like "(When this creature dies, return it to the battlefield under your control as an Aura with enchant creature. Attach it to target creature)") be used?
Jace Wright
And this
Juan Campbell
I'm designing a set with my friend to introduce friends to MTG: Usually the main why people haven't been wanting to even try this game is because "there are elves and fireballs, that's for children." So we are making 4 40-card decks with easy mechanics but a lot of cool flavour that everyone knows to at least to some extent. At the time we have 2 ready decks that we're playtesting, 1 still at the design phase and 1 we still need to doublecheck.
Mason Carter
Your friends sound close-minded, user. Elves and fireballs are mainstream as shit nowadays.
Camden Brown
What said. Personally, I wouldn't bother wasting time on these people.
Samuel Martinez
I think I'd rather use Bestow. Or use DFC's for this mechanic.
Colton Rogers
I don't get Compulsive Charge. Saccing like that at the end doesn't seem White or Green, seems very Red to me. If this is to get your friends into Magic because they think fantasy stuff is just for kids, which is ridiculous in and of itself, why not just make functional reprints but with different names, art, and subtypes? It would save you a lot of trouble. Lightning Bolt becomes Artillery Strike, Gatekeeper of Malakir becomes SS Captain, etc.
Jacob Jackson
It's not only for them. We're pretty much making this stuff for the flavor of it and have a laugh or two while having a beer. These are basically like the free welcome decks with a fun twist.
Owen Davis
I still don't understand why you don't just make functional reprints.
Jayden Gutierrez
Idea: A tribe of creatures in green that would all be ridiculously OP, were it not for a crippling weakness. For example: >4/1 for 2 with haste, trample, and "creatures blocking this creature have first strike" >5/2 for 1 with defender and "this creature blocks each turn if able" >6/6 for 4 with trample and "you may only cast this creature if no player controls any creatures" Just because I'm making an Australia-based set and I need to reference drop-bears in some way, so why not make a joke of it. Good idea? Bad? Suggestions?
Juan Murphy
Personally I like the idea and your implementation is pretty solid but boy does that need to be monitored very carefully.
Oh, idea, a leader of the tribe that makes it so your other creatures don't have abilities. Now that's cheeky.
Also, that feels to me like a jund mechanic with a bit of a focus on red rather than a primarily green mechanic.
ENEMY COMMANDS COMING THROUGH. HOW SHIT ARE THEY?
Carson Wood
More New Gods stuff. Boom Tubes are teleportation technology that the New Gods use to get around.
"Downsides, the tribe"? Eh, not a fan. Also, the 6/6 sounds like a pretty good card to have after someone wipes the board. Just pair it up with Nevinyrral's Disk.
Dylan Gutierrez
Sorry for grammar, old one I made a while ago.
Daniel Torres
Why'd you quote me? >Card It seems a bit muddled and definitely misworded in places; the ult is particularly bad. If it's an older card of yours, I'd suggest cleaning it up.
Bentley Rivera
>planeswalker - Demon The subtype is the walker's name, not a type.
I think the 0 should be "exile up to one target permanent you control" so that it can be stuck under her to prevent memory issues. Also, the activation cost of a planeswalker's activated abilities are the loyalty costs so the "sacrifice...:" clause in the 0 can't exist, another reason to change it.
"Each opponent chooses a creature he or she controls with converted mana cost X. You gain control of those creatures until your next end phase."
As for the actual abilities, that 0 is just begging for problems. I feel like you could combine the + and the -X and have the -X be her middle ability since it's pretty similar to the current +. Then replace the + with something more generically valuable.
I can dig what you're going for but as is, this sort of design would be much better done in the form of a creature along the lines of original olivia voldaren.
Hudson Watson
Its a different mechanic than bestow. Its kind of like telling someone youd rather constellation than, say, revolt. They play different roles and need different support.
And DFCs cant just go anywhere. This isnt a transformation really. Clinging Returned does have sort of a story you can imagine a DFC telling but lingering eidolon doesnt really. Really its just that theres no transformation for DFC to show. Theyre just kind of on you when they die. I think a fixed haunt would be useful to have because the flavor is so powerful. Haunt needed a reminder (in this case it becomes an aura), a more clear throughline of the ability granted (haunt creatures were etb triggers that became death triggers which is an extra level that probably isnt necessary), and a few other things like not using a word for an action or state that otherwise means nothing (haunts, haunting, though I dont have an issue with that-- I like becomes monstrous, renowned, etc.). I remember Maro saying an haunt where the creature becomes an aura was viable but he thought itd be wordy, buy its really not compared to Bestow unless I have the reminder text wrong.
He really hates haunt though. He thinks its worse than Radiance which I disagree with but hey, market research. But I can never find a really good explanation for why. I just kind of extrapolated those things up there. Just vague things like its hard to grok and is weird with the rules, but not exactly how. Only solid ground I know is that it shouldnt have been put on spells.
