Map of the unknown world

>hfw he loved Schopenhauer but can't mark Germany

LOL XDDDDDD LE >TRANSLATION MAYMAY XDDD FUNEEE LOLOLOLOLOL EPIC XDDD

>hfw he loved Tolstoy but can't mark Russia

>hfw he loved Schiller and Goethe but can't mark Germany

Egypt, Canada, China and South Africa will be filled soon, but man, still missing a lot I guess

Ya I already have Machado de Assis on backlog, but GuiRosa sounds like something that would lose its salt out of the original language.

What South African lit are you reading? I heartily recommend Herman Charles Bosman

The basics Cortazar, Borges, Bolaño, Marquez, Assis, Rosa, Drummond, João Cabral de Melo Neto, etc

Also thanks for you recommendation! Never heard of him, going to look about his works.

Yes, and no. The same could be said about the epics, Virgil, Homer, Dante, Ovid ( even tho Dante and Ovid aren't actually "epics") and guys like Joyce and Musil. Reading in the original is aways the best thing to do, but I am a firm believer that, if you aren't fluent of confortable with the language you should read a translation, and if you have interest in becoming fluent or getting deeper into the author read the original after. The only exception is if you read for the unviersity or want to become a scholar, so the original should aways the primal approach.

I know most people here doesn't agree with me on that, but lets take Ulysses for example, native speakers, without any guidance or support material, can get what? Maybe 25% of the book in their first, blind experience with it, sometimes not even this. So, if you read a translation and get 30%, who understood more about the work in the larger sense? Can you say that the guy who read the translation can't talk about Joyce? IMHO I think both, the native speaker and the guy that read the translation can talk about Joyce and BOTH are somewhat oblivious about the full scope of the work, but native speakers usually aren't humble enough to admit that may haven't really understood most of the work, yet they will aways say that you can only experience Joyce in the original language and put Ulysses and Joyce as their favorite.

I'm using Ulysses as an example because, besides FW, its probably one of the hardest books to translate, yet you have translated versions in Chinese, German, French, Portuguese, Spanish, etc. It shows that there is a big part of the work that goes beyond the language barrier, even in this kind of book.

With Rosa is almost the same thing, language (style and poetry) is a big part of the experience, but it isn't the whole thing, the themes, atmosphere, characterization, story, motifs, metaphors and all the human feelings presented can be considered universal, and lets be honest, who here only reads because of the "beauty of the writting"? I say, give it a try and see what kind of experience you can get from that.

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If you read lolita would you mark america or russia. He never got anything out before coming to the states so while it was published in america, it was written by a russian.

usa

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I believe that when a book is translated it loses its character. Every individual has a unique writing style, and when you translate you lose that. I believe there are parts of joyce that are easily translatable, but as a whole, a book like portrait of the artist as a young man is a quasi-autobiography, joyce writing about his childhood in the third/first person. Any translation loses that essential autobiographical sense seen later in the book when the "character" of Steven Daedalus fuses with Joyce himself. When translated the book is just about a guy named steven daedalus growing up in dublin, whose life somewhat mirrors that of Joyce. While a German and an American who speaks German could both discuss the book, the characters, the metaphors, the symbolism, the German did not have the same connection to the author the English speaker did.

In another sense, language is very cultural. There are certain intrinsic things understood by an english speaker about Joyce's childhood that might seem foreign to someone from say Japan. American culture is heavily influenced by Irish culture, so for an american alot of the experiences steven daedalus goes through are familiar enough that his childhood is relatable. Someone who grew up in Japan might not understand why Steven felt so nervous when going up to the Dean's office, or how he felt such contempt for the teacher that prompted him to. These cultural affections are lost on the Japanese speaker.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a translated book can be 100% equal as the original, it will never be the case, but I don't think it loses character, at least not all of it.
The author is giving the style, the story, characters, all in a plate to the translator, and a good translator can emulate much of the style in the majority of the cases, it will aways be an adaption, but the substance is there. I could give examples but since you probably don't know portuguese it won't matter at all.

>Any translation loses that essential autobiographical sense... the characters, the metaphors, the symbolism ... did not have the same connection to the author
And why you say that? To make such assumption you need to have read both versions. I've read Portrait only in my language and I can identify with everything people discuss about the book, most of the feelings he talk about are complety understood and experienced by most of the occidental world, but then we fall in another territory, not of language, but of cultural differences.

>There are certain intrinsic things understood by an english speaker about Joyce's childhood that might seem foreign to someone from say Japan.
This is most by cultural aspect of the work, and not because of the language, but again you need to be aware of how the culture in Japan works, saying that "These cultural affections are lost on the Japanese speaker" is kind of "dangerous ground" don't you think? This feeling you have quoted from the book, mostly derived from hierarchy are truly lost in a country like Japan where hierarchy is much more respected than our modern occidetal countries? I couldn't say, and I bet you can't either, because we aren't japanese, so how can you affirm that a Japanese person will never be able to enjoy "The Portrait..." if you can't simulate his point of view?

But let me give you some examples of what I'm trying to say...

Mishima wrote in japanese about japanese things, yet we can relate, when we read The Temple of the Golden Pavilion we don't need to be a troubled monk to relate with what is happening, and the weight of what is happening, hell is even one of the most comment authors here. We also don't need to have lived in the french aristocracy world to enjoy Proust, be an exiled roman to enjoy Ovid, or have lived in early XX century Dublin to read Ulysses.

What I'm trying to say basically is, translation are portrayed in this board in a very poisonous manner, in a way that may discourage new readers and pull them away from amazing works of literature. I say read what you can how you can, and if you got anything from it how can others say it was a waste?

better than I thought.

What have you read from Lithuania?

only patrician ITT

My aunt stocked up on some books from there since she's half Lithuanian, and I read a few. All in English. I don't even remember what they were called, they were all about how evil WWII and the USSR were.

in the words of john updike (i think) nabokov is the best writer of english prose currently holding american citizenship. thats good enough for me.

though presumably most people have read an american and a russian with less controvesial citizenship.

I don't see it as a matter of "getting" more or less of a book, and in all honesty, while I recognise that there is more to Ulysses than prose and that it works only as a whole, I wouldn't have had any interest in it if it weren't for the language. Having looked at translations of Ulysses, in particular, I don't expect the elements which draw me towards books like Gran Sertao Veredas to carry over in translation.
(I wouldn't be giving this any thought if it concerned a language in which I didn't imagine ever getting fluent, though)

I put Life of Pi as Canadian even though it's more about India than Canada.

Otherwise looking for recs for East Europe and Africa.

Africa: Coetzee, Camus, Mia Couto, Naguib Mahfouz and Pepetela

Mexico: Pedro Páramo by Juan Rulfo, Gringo Viejo by Carlos Fuentes

>Coetzee and Mahfouz
Mahnigga

I want to people to read some Croatian literature.
p-please

still waiting on that literature from Lesotho and Swaziland.

Russia for the earlier books he wrote in Russian, but Lolita, Pale Fire, etc., are very american

Camus is about as African as Norman lords were English

Well?

thanks user

>Hesse

ay

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>no france or spain or mexico

>what south african lit
>The basics Cortazar, Borges, Bolaño, Marquez, Assis, Rosa, Drummond, João Cabral de Melo Neto, etc

heh

I'll get round to it, have a few classics on my shelf I'd like to start.

I havent even read anything from china or india so I can't say anything really

just pullin your leg

ops, read "south american" lit

Slovenc?

I recommend Cyclops, a novel by Ranko Marinković... if you were asking for that. It's one of the best pieces from Croatian literature

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I would say that a very good translation is going to be its own separate work of art which should be judged not on its relation to the original but on its own merits. Inevitable it must be different from the original so to judge it as to how similar it is it will always be weaker. Borges has said that some of his works he prefers in translation, and he (among others) have said that Dostoevsky's prose is so weak that almost nothing is lost in a competent translation. DF Wallace said that he refused to read Infinite Jest in French because he couldn't stand the thought of it being better the English version.

So in a sense I agree with you when you said that a translation loses its character, but by skillful hands gains a new life separate from, and potentially the equal or better of the original.

Also Bloom said that Poe is so weak that any translation would improve his work, even that he needed an english "translation".

Still have a long way to go

You've really never read anything by an American author?

>Leave blank places
>blank

>blank =/= filled
>in this case filled with water
What's the matter?

AMA

kys

What did you guys read from Algeria ?

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as someone who has list at the back of The Western Canon open on his desk literally all the time I am furious

Not the Best

Camus probably

Surprised by how much looks filled in actually. I'm a Canadian who studies American lit so that's at least 90% of what I read.

Either "Camus counts!" or they read that algerian Stranger fanfiction back when it was being memed

( ._.)

are you from Baltic countries?

what have u read from Slovakia?

No
Zizek

I'm , i've read The Lovers of Algeria, The Meursault Investigation and Nedjma.
Do you have any rec?

Y'all should have taken example on and used different colors for "only read books from the Antiquity", "only read Camus" and "only read Zizek"

He is from Slovenia.

Why wouldn't he count? He was born there, spent a huge part of his life there and the country was very dear to his heart.

What are peoples criteria for filling this out? If someone came from a country that no longer exists or exists in a form so radically changed from the they lived I don't include it. Otherwise you could read something by an English Victorian, something from the Roman empire at it's geographical height, something from Spain at its greatest extent etc and have with only a couple of books be able to fill out most of the planet.

ROMA
OLIM
MILO
AMOR

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Mali lit please.

What did you read from Uruguay?

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>inb4 Lautreamont

Argentina: Arlt (Los Siete Locos y Los Lanzallamas), Bioy Casares (La invención de Morel), Lugones (Las Fuerzas Extrañas), Mar, Sábato (El túnel), Walsh.
Avoid: Cortázar

Not him but Benedetti is great.

>Avoid: Cortázar
Is he a case of locally unappreciated writer that got popular abroad?
Found his stories underwhelming so far.

>Benedetti
La tregua, Pedro y el capitan, antologías poéticas
>Onetti (fucking amazing)
Cuentos completos, El astillero, Juntacadáveres, El pozo, Vida corta
>Horacio "balas flojas" Quiroja
El hombre muerto, Cuentos de amor, locura y muerte, La gallina degollada, El crimen del otro y cuentos de la selva
>Roberto Echavarren
Ave Roc, Oír no es ver, Poemas Largos
>Eduardo Galeano
Las venas abiertas de América Latina
>Henry Trujillo
Ojos de Caballo
>Juana de Ibarbourou
Las lenguas de diamante
>José Enrique Rodó
Ariel
>Idea Vilariño
Nocturnos

You produce some really amazing literature for a country so small

Less "Argentina is the only country in latin america" than I would've expected ITT

Where are you from?

It's odd to see someone read literature from Uruguay that doesn't live in South America.

Consider reading Montevideanos. It was Benedetti's attempt to copy Joyce's Dubliners.

And Felisberto Hernandez
goodreads.com/book/show/17574861-piano-stories

I am Argentine

No order in particular of countries or writers

Great Britain: Shakespeare, Graham Greene, Dickens, William Prescott, Agatha Christie, Saint Thomas More, Chesterton, Conrad, Gibbon, Pope, Wilde, Coleridge, Tolkien, Chaucer, John Henry Newman.

Ireland: Only Joyce.

Belgium: Only the historian of the middle ages Henri Pirenne, but Ive read everything he wrote.

Poland: Sienkiewicz, the guy who wrote Quo Vadis.

Russia: Only Tolstoi and Dostotievsky

South Africa: Only Coetzee

France: Leon Bloy, Voltaire, Baudelaire, Flaubert, Henri Troyat, Moliere, Camus, Sartre, Proust, Verlaine, Houellebecq, Jules Verne, Pascal, Montesquieu (because college), Dumas, de Maitre, Rimbaud, Maritain.

Nicaragua: Only Ruben Dario

Mexico: Rulfo, Paz and Fuentes.

Peru: Vargas Llosa and Cesar Vallejo

Chile: Bolaño, Parra and Neruda.

Colombia: Garcia Marquez

Argentina: Too many to mention every single one. I think Borges is the only great Argentine writer, and Bomarzo by Manuel Mujica Lainez the only great Argentine novel. I am not a fan of Cortazar.

Uruguay: Horacio Quiroga

Spain: (many of these you have to read in high school) Fray Luis de Leon, San Juan de la Cruz, Santa Teresa de Avila, Cervantes, Gongora, Quevedo, Calderon de la Barca, Lope de Vega, Baltazar Gracián and Diego de Saavedra Fajardo (these 2 read because of Borges), Unamuno, the Machado brothers, Guillen and Garcia Lorca.

Cuba: Only Alejo Carpentier

Netherlands: Erasmus of Rotterdam and Espinoza.

Czech Republic: Only Kafka and Comenius (because of college), I had to google to be sure Kafka wasnt born in Austria.

Portugal: Saramago and Pessoa.

USA: Walt Whitman, Meville, Faulkner, Hemingway, Poe, Twain.

Denmark: Only Kierkegaard.

Switzerland: Only Hermann Hesse.

Germany: Kant, Hegel (because of college), Goethe, Hoelderlin, Nietzsche.

Austria: Rainer Maria Rilke

Italy: Machiavelli, Dante Alighieri, the person who wrote the travels of Marco Polo, Umberto Eco, Di Lampedusa.

>Worst Korea propagandists on Veeky Forums

forgot Japan.
Only Yukio Mishima, although Murakami is a best seller here.

Most I've read are from countries that don't exist anymore.

woah

you are truly profound!

So, what do I do with my downloaded, blank map? Do I just kill myself right here and now? Nah, my friend, no I choose to not accept that fate. Killing myself wouldn't work in this current situation. Masturbate like there's no tomorrow or masturbate like there's no yesterday? No, I won't masturbate since masturbating causes acute blindness in the practicer. Hang myself with a belt on my own back porch with a bandana on my head? K, maybe I'll do that last part with the bandana but maybe not. K-kill niggers and rape little children and punch grannies on the street? I'm not racist, so, no, and I love children and grannies and wouldn't ever harm them. The old Ancient Greece doesn't fucking exist anymore. Tell me what the hell I'm freaking supposed to fricking do do. Huh, where do I plot the freaking map? Huh, what do I gotta do to get an answer? Huh, why the h**k aren't you answering me?!

>Greece, Rome, France, Germany
Me too...

>there are kids in this thread that never read Borges

wow

I'm pretty happy with this.

By 'this' what you mean is having chosen the most horrendous color available, don't you

Gold?

pleasantly surprised

Looks more like birdshit to me

I'm planning on increasing the amount of colour once I finish reading the Greeks.

kinda disappointed desu

>dat Ecuador