Getting published

I'm wondering who here has given getting published a serious try? I hear nothing but negativity.


I'm 18, in college. I've written four books and countless other shit in the four years I've been writing.

I just sent out my first manuscript to thirty agents. My English teacher gave me positive feedback on the fourth draft. I drafted it five more
times. I've only given it to a few friends, but all feedback has been positive. Granted, most of my friends don't read a ton, but they said it was really interesting and i really hope they're not lying.

Are my chances good Veeky Forums? I don't want to spend my adult life slaving away for material shit; and this rich-kid college shit isn't for me. I hope i get this shit sold and make enough to take a year off and travel around with a couple buddies of mine. I know you all probably hate me by know, so just tell me what you think.

Other urls found in this thread:

pastebin.com/jX9J8y74
pastebin.com/MQSZm8UU
pastebin.com/n8aRgCwr
ian-irvine.com/on-writing/the-truth-about-publishing/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

>i really hope they're not lying.

They are or if they're not, they lack objectivity and are only supporting you because of your friendship.

Good luck!

You're right. I need to give it to some who doesn't know me.

Is there anyway to get objective feedback on my work.

Would anyone here mind taking a look at a sample and telling me what they think of the style? I'll send it over email for obvious reasons.

if they're not too long/bad I'll take a look at whichever you think is your best

You mean chapters or books?

I would really appreciate it.

Email?

I could read a chapter or two
can you just pastebin it, I'm not trying to put my email out

I've written various books and short stories over the years.

At the moment I have a bit of a romance-type novel, a fantastical thing, that I'm trying to get published. I also have written quite a few short stories, some of which actually have been published, and my hope is to collect them and publish the collection.

I've never gotten an agent, sadly. The closest I ever got was the second draft of the fantasy story, where an agent got all the way to asking for the whole thing before turning me down. That wasn't fun. But you should definitely keep trying.

Okay. Here you go.

It expires in an hour because I'm paranoid.


pastebin.com/jX9J8y74

Alright first things I'm noticing: waking up trope and too many pronouns. I'll keep reading

Reads like a detective from an old noir film imo. Not sure if that's what you want but yeah.

You should know he's schizophrenic if you're confused on what's going on.

good job not using too many dialogue signaling words
and overall I like it

yeah I got that there was something there, nice concept, good writing but a little too thesaurasy at times like when you wrote "sloth like trot"
that line stood out just as being incongruous with the simpler writing of the rest of it

I know starting with waking up is a trope, it's not the first chapter so i thought it was alright.

oops this was meant for

I can see how "sloth like trot" can seem out of place.

The chapter is a pretty good representation of what the writing is like throughout the book. It's been difficult to judge the quality of my work because I've been so immersed in developing my style for so long.

Do you think it's good enough to keep an agent reading?

Honestly I thought it was good. The prose is clean and straight forward, nice to read. I also like the rhythm.
I thought the content was interesting as well. I'd have to agree with other user about the "waking up trope" and it does have a sort of old noir thing going on too, but I personally enjoyed it. You also seem to have a talent for sensory detail.
If this were the intro a novel I would keep reading.

Keep sending it out.
It's not clearly 'good enough' but it might be.

not the other guy btw

I like it a LOT
publish it xd

[email protected]

sent you the first chapter, which is pretty much what i sent all the 30 agents.

thanks guy

Wanna post it for another hour?

It's expired, but everyone seems to like it, so I'd take a look.

Did you get it?

Sure. Thanks btw

pastebin.com/MQSZm8UU

Not bad. It is kind of cliche to start out with the character waking up. But overall it's tight and concise. Fascinating content too.

I like it. I think it was really vivid where it counted, without trying too hard where it wasn't.

Your narrator uses kind of clinical language in the beginning, though (REM, diaphragm, patient, stomach content - things that just don't really roll off the tongue in casual conversation) and then says "tits and ass." I think otherwise your narrator is written fairly consistently but that bit jumped out to me.

The fact that you've written 4 books means your chances are better than most. Keep trying.

Don't get self-conscious - be brazen.

Getting published is as much work as writing a book.

And of course, can have just as varied an outcome depending on your care and effort.

I wish you all the luck dear stranger.

Just had my 1100 hundred page post modernist epic rejected by everyone i sent it to

being a genius sucks man

OP post it again please?

Link's dead

>I'm 18
>I've written four books and countless other shit
>in the four years I've been writing

>that means you wrote a book when you were 14yo
>that means you've never really read a lot
>that means you're rushing towards publishing because you're pretentious af

no thanks.

try here, on related forums on reddit, any writing forum
forget friends and family, you can't tell if honest or nice

I'd like a read, too, user.
I'm a harsh critic but you can expect honest judgement from me.

[email protected]

This please

I like the clinical stuff because if he's schizoid then he might know about some bizarre fields or be overly interested in them
it almost implies that the author himself is a little off, which could be a cool idea

Im at the beginning of writing my first book, gonna do some rewrites on chapter 2, after that I might let some anons here read it for some feedback.

Would be nice if a serious publisher picked it up, if not I could always just self publish on amazon

dont know if ya'll are still around, but here you go

pastebin.com/n8aRgCwr

Yeah no. I want money.

Paying for school/possibly having to take care of my dad who's health is currently going down hill pretty fast are the two reasons I've worked so hard on this. I may have to quit school, get my CDL, and become a truck driver to support him if things get really bad. It's not pretentiousness; it's fear.

And you realize some people have the ability to manage their time, right? I wrote so much mainly because i'd wake up a few hours before school and write. Then I'd read in the evenings. I'd say I've probably spent more time reading than I have writing.

goddamn you pissed me off guy

How long have you been writing it?

who is in pic related?????

Townes Van Zandt

is this the beginning?

No, random chapter

Writing for money? That's rich.

Your writing shows promise. You're concise, and the parts that are shaky and disjointed can easily be cleaned up by a decent round of editing. And, with practice, you'll write cleaner prose instinctively. Unfortunately I didn't find the scene compelling overall, but that may just be down to personal preference.

Keep writing.

Beautiful, in my humble opinon you have a fairly good chance of being published.

By the way, as a person who also wants to publish something one day, I'd like to ask: How did you learn to write like that? What's your source of inspiration? Any book you recommend?

I want to improve my writing skills.

To add up, I really enjoy your sober style. Not too much ornament. Concise and compelling.

The chances of anyone getting published, even if you're good, aren't that great. You generally have to write something that's in an already well selling genre, in order to break in. Publishers just aren't that willing to take chances on much of anything anymore.

If you're writing something original, and different, then your chances aren't great, believe it or not. Most people who fall into this category generally have to prove themselves through the self publishing market before publishers will take a chance on you.

Look at shit like The Martian, not saying it's a great novel, but it's definitely popular, and I can instantly see why it is so when reading it, but even that no publisher was willing to take a risk on it, until it was already proven.

Coming from a diff perspective. Just kind of an FYI:

I'm currently in my third year of an MFA at Syracuse University. I'm working on a novel as well, hope to get an agent.

BUT, what I wanted to say is: last year we had an agent come and offered to read everyone's first chapter and meet with us about it. It was incredibly nice of her. Probably twenty of us sent her stuff. Then she did a big-group talk and one thing she said stuck with me, "When I get queries, the first thing I look for is what have they done that makes them marketable or better writers." Meaning, have you published short stories, essays, reviews, poems, etc., where at? How often? Any prizes? Honorable mentions? Etc. She also said to us to put in the subject-field of our queries to agents "MFA in Poetry/Fiction from ______". She said every single agent will stop and read your submission with closer attention if you're a graduate of a prestigious university.

This pissed me off. But that's how it is. An agents goal is to sell a book. They look for what the publishers tell them to look for.

So, my advice: publish excerpts of your novel, or your short stories. Focus on that. Forget hitting up agents cold without a track-record of publishing. Also, if you live in a decent sized city, there's bound to be a writing group; join up, get people to read your shit. Also, you're in college. Presumably you have an English department. Find out who writes and publishes fiction (even the poets will be a great resource). Take their classes, go to their office hours. Take workshop classes and keep writing as much as you can but MAKE SURE YOU'RE CHALLENGING YOURSELF AS A WRITER. Try new things. Get feedback. Find writer friends, reader friends, but make sure people you take advice from are people you respect as HUMANS first, otherwise their feedback won't be worth your effort.

And, if you're interested, apply to MFA programs. I'm not a huge fan of MFA's. It's hit or miss if you get a good cohort. Find writers you like, read their essays too to find out what kind of people they are, and reach out to them, find out where they teach and apply to study with them. All you need is one person with some clout to believe in you. Names, institutions, publications, awards: these things pave the way to publication. Start with some smaller journals, online journals are fine, just get your shit into the world. Build a track-record of editors publishing your shit because then you have proof that people dig you.

But save your best shit for the agent (or an excerpt).

Agents are hard as fuck to get. Be patient with that. Try magazines.

I'll hang around for a bit to answer any q's.

Not OP. But I'm applying for Syracuse right now (MFA). I was curious whether your submission was a novel excerpt or a short story, and what style you write in. Hell, it's a little intrusive, but it would be cool to look at the manuscript that got you in. How are Saunders and Mary Karr btw?

Breece D'J Pancake is one of my heros. His style's probably changed my writing more than any other single author. Try reading a collection of his short stories. He had a short career. I think it totals only 12 stories. But goddamn if he wasn't a phenomenal writer.

I really didn't expect the general feedback to be so positive. It's nice to know all this work hasn't been a complete waste of time.

Self-publishing is one way to get there. Or publishing smaller stuff in literary journals.

Publishing has always been incredibly hard to get into, and it's always been incredibly unfair as well. Even though the standards have always been ridiculously high, there's always been terrible authors who make it through, and even dominate the market.

Probably modern publishing is as hard as it's ever been to get into, but there still are plenty of other means to prove yourself, like self publishing which is viable now, and becoming even more so. It probably won't be that much longer until self publishing makes the publishing community obsolete.

i'm actually in poetry. but i write fiction as well.

Saunders is exactly what you would hope for as a teacher and person: super fucking nice. Mary has a lot of bite to her, which I dig. She lays shit on the line in class.

But, both of them only teach in the fall, and mary is on leave all this year, george i hear is on leave next year (and word going around is he'll be leaving the program soon).

as far as sample to get in, i know people who got in on sci-fi writing, some on realism, some of humor. So style isn't a big deal, especially the faculty is pretty diverse in terms of style. BUT, everyone submitted short stories. Not to say a novel couldn't get you in (all the faculty writes novels except george, but he just released or is about to release his first novella).

just send your best shit because the sample is what matters most, even if you write different or got a unique odd-style, don't sweat it, embrace it. That way you know that wherever you get in at it's because they like how you write.

You're studying under George fucking Sanders? You lucky duck.

Reading that broke my heart though. I always forget how hard it is to get published until i read something by someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

What sort of magazines or journals should i try to focus on? The Masters Review? Glimmer Train? Is that really so much easier than publishing a full-length novel?

I haven't met any writers at my uni yet besides this one dude who writes scifi short stories. I honestly cannot stand college. My experience so far has been something out of a goddamn American Pie movie. But maybe I'm not searching for the right people in the right places. Next semester I'm taking more English oriented classes. I'll try to start meeting other people with a similar passion for writing.

Also, you seem like you could really assess the quality of my work from your experience. Would you mind giving it a look if you haven't already? It's not that long. I'd really appreciate it.

Thanks providing some insight to my original question. I didn't mean for this to become a thread full of people critiquing my work.

Great. Thanks for the words of encouragement.

As far as your own personal work, are you attempting to put a chapbook together before you graduate?

I took one class with G.S. Poetry people are only allowed to take one with him because everyone wants to take his class. It kind of sucks because everyone takes his classes and then either won't say a fucking word or just agree with him or try to say smart shit. But he's dope and insightful and open.

It's not hard to get published in mags. It's hard to get an agent. But an agent is a long-term goal. You're 18 motherfucker. Chill.

Look, the publishing path is all about what your end-goal is. If you just want to publish a story, send to smaller journals, online ones, there are some dope ones and if you're a decent writer your work will find a home. Master's review and glimmer train are probably not the best option. Send them, by all means, but whatever you send to them, send somewhere else too, unless you legit think your shit is better than what they send. BUT, even if your shit is better, that doesn't really matter. Better is all relative. Plus, I've worked of a few different magazines, including SU's mag Salt Hill, and I promise you, very rarely do editors even read your story. They will read the first line or paragraph and judge it from there. And the bigger the magazine, the less they read and the less room they have in the mag b/c they have their friends they want to publish, their mentors they want to publish, people who's work they like but have never met so they solicit them for work. You're not competing against the other submissions, you're competing against an insular group.

If your goal is to just get an agent, you're probably talking about an MFA track or going to agent conventions and pitching your work in fifteen seconds. Think about how many people e-mail agents a day. The woman who spoke here said hundreds. What makes you different than the rest on the surface b/c agents don't read your first chapter, they read your e-mail, and if the e-mail tells them something that they think they could profit from, only then will they read your work. You want a agent, do something that makes them want you easily. And don't say your novel b/c what makes them even look at it?

At uni, meet professors. Go their office hours right now, just drop by and ask if they got a few minutes to talk writing, books, agents, publishing. Take their classes. It'd be great if you found peers, but in my experience teaching here, good, serious undergrad writers are few. But you'll find them in the workshop classes. Where are you at school?

i'll take a look at your shit. but who gives a fuck what someone says about it? there will always be someone to say it's dope and always someone to say it sucks. you just keep doing you and search for an editor or agent who digs you.

i've got several chapbooks of work together now. thesis has to be a full-length. but it's gonna be shit. whatever is in my thesis, chances are none of it would be in my first book, if i even pursue trying to publish a book.

Here's a sobering stat, of authors who manage to get published only about 1 in 7 ever actually manages to pay for printing costs through their work. Even if you're a good author you're likely not going to earn any money. Write because you have passion for it, not because you expect a paycheck because it likely will not arrive.

read the scene of sickness and car crash.

you're a fine writer. got sense, setting, chops.

my only q while reading is what do i care about? who? why? do i hate the main character for causing a crash? pity him? what about the girl who feels his head and then peaces out? is that a test to their deep connection or her callousness?

just big picture questions. does feel a little like a detective book: but i just read do androids dream so it could be personal carry-over.

you got the fundamentals down. but i didn't read anything in there that hit my gut or my heart. part of that could be that the character doesn't seem like a unique individual. or fully human. you have omnipotence. show me something within the character.

to contradict most of that: this is a tiny excerpt. keep going. don't stop. character takes time and scenes.

you're a good writer. this exceprt isn't enough to see what makes you different or better or more interesting. this excerpt shows you know what you're doing.

because it's been done before, idiot

Yeah....most published authors don't make any money, and still have to work their day jobs.

Which also shows how much the publishing industry knows about what's profitable, but there you go.

Getting published is what amateurs always strive for, and do everything just to make that happen, maybe even write garbage they don't even care about just to get in printed, only to find out it ultimately doesn't mean anything.

that's only if you self publish.


for everyone: YOU SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER PAY AN AGENT

YOU SHOULD NEVER EVER EVER PAY A PUBLISHER.

if you want to self-publish, use amazon. cheap as fuck. don't print on paper until you're making money.

but don't ever pay a person or a publisher to publish your work. THEY PAY YOU (or, with an agent, it's free and they take a percentage when they sell your book to a publisher)

I got 2nd in a National short story contest in "Canada" and with that I got a contact with a literary agent who's open to read whatever else I've written.

>tfw i just want to be a computer science major and smoke pot so I'm squandering this opportunity by not really dedicating myself to my "novel" I'm working on

replying to myself: i got an errand to run. be back in an hour and will answer more questions/give more advice.

>that's only if you self publish.

Uh...no, that's for actual published authors. Most self published authors make no money either, however.

With self publishing, you are going to be paying your own money to do it, you'll have to pay amazon a cut, your printed book printer if you go that route, your book cover artist, editors, etc. The upside is you get to keep a much larger percentage, than if you went with a publisher.

With a publisher, they pay for all the costs, but take a much larger percentage.

Most people I see recommend going with self publishing at first anyways, as the cost is within most people's means, and you don't have any better chance making money with a publisher.

I'm at University of Kansas.

Thanks for all the advice and critique. That scene was a little dry in terms of characterization. Maybe i sacrificed it for brevity, but it was a more action-oriented sample.

I honestly have no clue how good the creative writing program is here. I'll look into it, fish for some classes.

Thanks again man. I haven't done as much research or networking as i probably should have.

Even without self publishing, most published authors will see the advance they get as the only monetary reward. Writing for money, especially in this day and age (not that it was ever all that different) is silly. You do not see the vast majority of "failures" due to survivor bias. Truth is when you write something it's an exercise in arrogance, which will likely never pay off. It's fun doing it, which is why we continue writing though.

In other words, if the advance is the only thing you get paid, you're likely working for less than minimum wage. You'd have a much more consistent time working in McDonald's if money is what you want out of it.

Basically. what's the average advance? 10k, if you're lucky? Writing a quality book takes most people a year. Do the math.

The main point is, just getting published is by no means a ticket to free blowjobs and ferraris street.

Exactly my point, even assuming that you can get published, the monetary reward is appalling. Anyone who writes for money is misguided or financially illiterate, at best.

nevermind. i'm back. library is closed.


you're summary of self-publishing is accurate. and you're right that publisher will cover those costs and take a larger portion. But i still don't see the benefit of self-publishing. I think b/c we're talking about different levels of self-publishing, maybe. I do not recommend self-publishing a novel unless you have a fan-base who will actually buy your shit.

and if a publisher publishes you're book, you're making money. Not a lot, but enough. Plus, with a publisher, they will set up readings, book-signings, interviews, reviews, etc. they have pull to get your work into other magazines.

One of the reasons george saunders is as famous and respected as he is is because his agent is the fucking editor of the new yorker. every time he's ready with a story, the new yorker publishes it, hypes him and his books. he's a great writer and i love his shit, but you cannot discount the power his editor has.

i looked at the mfa program at your school. they say the majority of students are fully funded. awesome, make sure you're fully funded. don't pay for an mfa. it's 3 years, which is what mine is. too long for me personally, i miss the real world, but great b/c it's another year of focusing on your writing. Kij Johnson in the department looks incredible. hit her up right fucking now. jesus. and the director has four books. you have a huge pool of resources to pull from with them. to get feedback, advice, guidence. hit them up. learn. take their classes. they will write you letters of rec if you want to apply to mfa programs. they may even suggest you apply to theirs. here at SU they always accept one undergrad into the fiction program, kansas may do the same.

partially true. the most money you'll make directly from the book is probably the advance. however, you can get readings, lectures, etc. and i've heard several of the fiction faculty say they make their real living off of giving readings at universities.

the fringe benefits of a publisher, even a smaller one, are huge.

but if all you want is to see your work in a bookstore or on amazon, the easiest and surest way to get it there is to give it to them yourself.

i had a prof say 10k is the min for a first book.
that's a year of living without working. full-time writing. i'm living on 12k a year right now and it's do-able.

but getting that first 10k is hard as fuck, i agree.

why would anyone on this board rather work at mcd's than write? for any amount of money.

and again, 10k is the advance. now go do readings, signings, get that extra $$. get a fucking easy teaching job with full benefits at a small college. not that hard. they pay 40k and up for teach three classes a semester. not the fun classes, sure, but it's money.

>misguided or financially illiterate, at best

well, that would be me

A low level living from writing would satisfy me. But you're making it sound like it's as ridiculous a dream as my roomate wanting to go into the NFL when he isn't even on the college practice team.

You think 4% of published authors are able to do that? God I hope so. I've never looked up the stats on that figure because ignorance is bliss.

Take myself, I have a long storied interest in writing. Been doing so since I was a child. That said, I am an economist by trade. I'm interested in the stock market as well. So I'm planning on focusing on that as my path to self reliance. As such, I don't particularly care about speaking arrangements and the like. Don't get me wrong, would be interesting to get invited. That said, they're by far not my priority. I just want to put eyeballs in front of my work and have them enjoy it.

>Plus, with a publisher, they will set up readings, book-signings, interviews, reviews, etc. they have pull to get your work into other magazines.

Well.....that's the thing though. In theory, they'll do that. But I know a lot of people who've been published who never really got those sort of things from the publisher, even though they promised it. Then when the book flops, the publisher blames the author, even though they didn't live up to their part of the bargain, and never work with that author again.

Basically, everything I've read about publishing is that it's great if you're that 1% of published authors who the publishers really do get behind, turn their marketing machine on, and actually do all those things. Not so great if you're the other 99% of published authors.

The upside of self-publishing, is at least you have control over your stuff, and you're not dependent on anyone else to make or break you.

I've seen a lot of advances that are more in line of 4k or so. Not super experience at it, but 10k would generally be a very good advance.

Survivor Bias.

You're assuming that the 10k is all but guaranteed, and that you'll get published. Most authors don't manage to do this. As such, the expected value of the transaction is far below 10k. If money is thus a concern you don't focus on writing because you're likely to end up going hungry.

We all dream of making it big, but we also have to be realistic. Have a backup plan and don't expect the writing bit to actually work out in a long while, if ever. Enjoy it for its own sake.

Speaking of, just came on this article. I've never heard of this author but I think he explains the situation very well

ian-irvine.com/on-writing/the-truth-about-publishing/

sounds like you're area would be magazines then.

i've heard that stuff too, but only second or third hand. I've heard horror stories about publishers but also about authors. and ya, there are more books published every year than we ever hear about, but that doesn't mean the other 99% are left in tatters.

however, i will say, the people i interact with here are successful. but there are plenty of people who graduate from this program and become successful too, not just the big big names.

Again, i come back to saying, it all just depends on what you want. If you want to have a novel(s) and be viewed as a writer, the easiest way is to get an mfa and make connections and write and send shit out. That's the easiest way.

From there, if you want to make money, teach comp classes, maybe a creative class or two if you get a lucky gig at a smaller institution. Do readings, apply for residencies, fellowships, etc. Publishing and success for the 99% are going to depend on who you know. The 1% is the lucky bastard that gets pulled from the slush. George Saunders got pulled from the slush pile at the new yorker and now he's the shit. All the other profs here were interns, readers and then editors at big magazines. They had connections. All of them.

the 99% hustle and make a living by teaching, reading, writing review, giving interviews, doing residencies and then getting an advance every couple of years.

you make your living off of something else, but once you get that first 10k, you either commit to it or stay slow or stop writing.

the profs here say the majority of people who graduate from the program and don't publish don't publish b/c they stop writing. they get a regular job and give their writing less and less of their time.

or they're not very good writers. they didn't grow or learn.

>sounds like you're area would be magazines then.
ouch hahaha. I do want to create something that is art. That said, I'm realistic about it. This is a hobby, not my chosen career path.

Obviously you'll have less time to write, but this does not mean that you'll wholesale abandon it. Furthermore, if you play your cards right you can retire early and live frugally. As such, you could then focus entirely on writing without having to concern yourself with money - true creative freedom.

magazines are dope. it sounds like your area b/c you don't need an agent, or touring or readings or any of that shit. magazines just want good writing. not a slight in the least. I'm being honest: if you just want eyes on your art, hit up magazines. and if an agent digs it and hits you up, dope, roll with it.

who the fuck wants a job now to retire later? live your life now!

There's several things that a career gives me that publishing does not. For example, I wasn't born in a first world country. As such, I need a visa to remain in Europe now that I finished university. Unless I get a job, or suddenly become magnificently rich, I'll quickly be deported. So getting a career benefits me far more than writing. I'll continue doing it as a hobby, as I've done so for years. But it won't be my primary concern for many years to come.

just make sure you're happy at your job.

Keep on writing, bro. Gonna check out Breece's work. Thank you.

wow. that was complete fucking shit, I barely made it through the second paragraph. Your prose is so fucking bland, and is conveying nothing. The tempo and structure of your sentences couldn't even match up to an amateur, and what's up with these dumb wannabe dramatic short sentences you have implemented in it. fucking shti

I'm a first year MFA at McNeese. It's fine if no one's heard of it, but the point is that it's funded. I'm not sure if ol' Syracuse here mentioned it, but it's a terrible idea to go to an MFA program that doesn't at least waive tuition.

In my short time here, I'm amazed at the obsession with publishing. Of course it's important, and of course it's an enormous trial just getting a major publication. But I've read tons of mid level short stories so far, published and unpublished, and I'm asking myself whether there was any ever any point to it beside gratifying the writer. Other writers, including myself, can appreciate certain levels of craft and daring, but usually I just shrug afterwards.

If it's really money this guy is after, he can find something else. In the meantime he can write, revise, until he creates something truly worth reading. That's what I'm trying to spend my time here doing.

Syracuse dude here. i have heard of mcneese. I applied there but didn't get in. I advise everyone to apply to mcneese b/c of their unique application process (it's free unless you get in, correct mcneeser).

Syracuse is fully-funded. I agree with Mc that no one should ever pay for an MFA. MFA=FREE or don't do it.

I also am not interested in publishing. I stopped sending work out over a year ago. Don't think I'll ever do a book of poetry and would only do a novel for the money (so probably never). A majority of the shit published sucks, even huge books that get prizes and praise.

read, write, revise, think, be happy. die.