Left or Right?

Left or Right?

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jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/
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Doesn't matter. Just stick to one.

>rows instead of power cleans

literally never going to make it

both are terrible

>t. Brosplit

Fuck rows. Fuck power cleans. This is all you need:

AxBxAxx, BxAxBxx

A:

Squat 3x5
Bench 3x5
Deadlift 1x5

B:

Squat 3x5
Press 3x5
Deadlift 1x5
Chin-ups*

*Bodyweight until 15 reps, then switch to weighted 3x5.

Rows are an intermediate assesory movement and power cleans are an unessisary risk unless you are an athlete.

What are your lifting stats?

Yeah do you wanna be the lonely autist living in the forest, with 7 years max lifespan

Or the famous performer that gathers cities to watch him. Free food, shelter, bitches.

Also dogs were domesticated from wolfs. Lions and tigers have not been successfully domesticated.

literal autism

What are cats, then?

depends on your goals. I'm assuming you want to get as strong as possible, so Starting Strength is the way to go. Not just the program, but the book, and make sure to fucking do accessories.

Neither,

ABA

A
>Squat 3x5+
>Bench/OHP 3x5+
>Row/Weighted Chinup 3x5+

B
>Deadlift 3x5+
>OHP/Bench 3x5+
>Weighted Chinup/Row 3x5+

Alternate the last two each workout. Last set is AMRAP. Ramp up the deadlift, but do the other ones same weight each set.

Bobcats lynxes and cheerahs at the most

Lions and tigers are a literal never

Dogshit.

Dogshit.

Squat
Bench
Row

Deadlift
Ohp
Pull ups


My favorite beginner program, take it or leave it I don't give a fuck

Why do people choose shit routines like these written by random retards on an indonesian basket weaving forum? Why not follow a real, proven programs from actual coach?

>be me, average looking 17 year old
>start stronglifts while eating on maintenance/slight caloric surplus
>9 month later, lifts are 1/2/3/4 for 5x5
>bodyfat got a little high, decide to cut a little
>cut for 4 month while raising strength on texas method
>now ripped, started slow clean bulking on madcow 5x5
>a year later do smolov, followed by ed coan deadlift routine afterwards
>365 bench/585 squat/600 deadlift @ 195 lbs 20 years old
>try to do 2nd smolov cycle (and smolov jr at the same time) for a second time less than 6 month after 1st smolov
>now injured in hospital

>stronglifts
>not written by a random retard

lmoa

Hope you get better soon...

I'm doing the variant of Starting Strength advertised in the Veeky Forums sticky. It's essentially the Stronglifts 5x5 on the right except with lower set numbers. I think I might just amp up the sets after I get situated into lifting.

height?

>now ripped, started slow clean bulking on madcow 5x5
>didn't post body

Idk that guy is pretty aesthetic his shoulders are almost as wide as his hips

Handsome too

Do stronglifts. The app is amazing. They're both great but noobs like me and you need the app to stay on track

They can only understand information in a jpg

>literally a scammy sand nigger

No thanks. His form tips and articles are pretty in-depth, but his routine is just fucking snake oil.

>a beginner deadlifts three times a week

>but his routine is just fucking snake oil.
So SS is snake oil too?

lol no.

Medhi's routine is snake oil precisely BECAUSE it is SS sans Cleans with more volume.

Without any hesitation or doubt, the left.

The volume goes to 3X5 on SL pretty soon. Plus you gotta remember that SL starts at 20kg and goes up while SS starts with tested weights - those extra sets are good for getting technique down while weights are in the toddler range.

From a practical perspective rows are more suited for noobs without a coach who have trouble even benching properly - better not to learn cleans than to commit shitty technique to muscle memory.

I'm not saying that SL is better or the same as SS, but saying that one is goat and the other dogshit is idiotic.

>From a practical perspective rows are more suited for noobs without a coach who have trouble even benching properly - better not to learn cleans than to commit shitty technique to muscle memory.

SS also has 300 pages on proper technique but no one ever brings that up

Both are shit.

Because you got to consider the real life way it's applied by most noobs. Go on QTDDTOT and see what the majority of guys on beginner programmes are asking:
>Calories from sugar don't count, right?
>My back hurts constantly. Oh, my deadlift is 50% higher than my squat but that is normal, my form is perfect.
>I eat a turnip a day and my lifts are stalled, should I go intermediate?
>I stalled on LP without hitting 1/2/3/4. WTF? I'm, 5'4'', by the way.
>Will bread make me fat?
Do you seriously think those guys read the book? Better for them to do something they can do halfway right than something they will fuck up hopelessly.

Agree

I can see why people don't finish this book - it's pretentious as fuck.

>routines like these written by random retards

My suggested routine is just starting strength without the power cleans. Even Rip has said the power cleans aren't nessisary if you are older or expect to have problems with recovery. Personally, I think they are great but come with unessisary risk for a novice. Better to perfect the 5 basic lifts (squat, bench, deadlift, press, and chin-ups) before moving on to explosive work and assesory movements.

Deadlifts three times a week are ok when the lift is only one workset and can start at ~65 lbs. Keep in mind that this type of beginner program is only expected to last about 4 months. For most people, that would end with a slightly greater than body weight deadlift and squat.

Overtraining the deadlift at such a low weight is damn near impossible.

Yeah, Mark is right on most things.
But when he is wrong he sticks to his guns until it's starting to get ridiculous. Though that is mostly on nutrition and sometimes rehab.

Reg Park 5x5 is better than both.

>When no one is around, what are you doing?
beating my meat, that's what I'm doing

GSLP is better, if you tweak the progression slightly.

Mark is a dogmatic and his reasoning is almost always retarded. What gets me the most is his inability to see the forest for the trees.
>You should only do Pendlay rows which are superior to all rows.

Lol. It's the act of rowing that is important, how you perform is up to you. I just hope that this stupid mentality hasn't spread to you guys.

>Reg Park 5x5 is better than both.
>GSLP is better, if you tweak the progression slightly.

>routines like these written by random retards

Thing is, Rip is actually pretty flexible. Most people get starting strength wrong because they misunderstand how complex the programming actually is in the book.

>most people forget the chin-ups
>most people forget that you don't start doing cleans until your deadlift form is doing well.
>most people don't understand that you should probably do deadlifts every session and only introduce cleans when you stall due to recovery issues.
>most people don't know that Rip said fat people should diet on starting strength. To paraphrase his words: "They obviously know how to eat. They just need to stop drinking cokes."
>most people don't realize that GOMAD is a short term bulk for skinny guys that won't eat.
>most people forget that deadlifts can start lower than 135

I could go on, but you get the point. The book and Rip's Q&A sessions on YouTube make it clear that there is some wiggle room in the program.

>Intermediate fags swear by Mark because he IS RIGHT ON EVERYTHING!
>Proficient fags realize he was wrong on some stuff and suddenly SS is the WORST ROUTINE EVER!
Though it's hard to tell when people are memeing.

Fucking hell - they are all the same gimmicky squat routines that get shoved to beginners without any thought. If you want to train to look good, dedicating so much work to your lower body is retarded.

What beginners should be doing for muscle mass/aesthetics is P/P/L - that's it. Train your compounds first in the SS way and try to up the weight while having 5x10 back off sets. Go wild on the bro assistance and eat until you gain 10kg, then cut back.

I am aware of all that. But then he goes out and pretends like he never wrote/said those things. Maybe he's just a fucking troll. I mean recommending shit like the branding method for tendonitis to impressionable kids, when he should and does, know better is just some level A trolling.

I started with SL because I didnt want to get meme'd by SS but looking back now I shouldve done SS. SL is great but the 5x5 volume gets to be alot and when the weight surpasses your bw as a beginner every set feels crushing and the rest times eat up a lot of time.

Go with SS but on the B day replace power cleans for rows. Power cleans can be a little too complicated for a beginner and if you dont nail down the form and progress on it you wont make any progress because of shiity form. Barbell Row is easier to learn and more effective. Plus it will give you great posture and prevent rolled shoulders.

Also ADD accessories. Chances are youll finish the routine in about 1 hour or an hour and 10min. Add chinups/pullups, dips; start adding weight to these movements by 2.5lbs once you can get over 8 bw reps. Add curls and t-bars rows are great to develop your back.

Also fuck what rippletoe says about choosing a weight that feels right. If youre a total noob and beginner at weightlifting(Which you are) start everything at bar(deadlifts and rows with a 10lb plate). So you lose ~4weeks, who gives a shit, learn the movements plus 4weeks in your entire lifting career is nothing dont ego trip. Start at bar and shut the fuck up no one in the gym cares.

Cardio once a week. Just to keep your fat levels down. Bulk on a +300 or +500 surplus. Cut after ~8months but if youre skelly after a year.

Look, don't get me wrong - I like COACH Rippetoe and I don't mean that ironically. However, in an attempt to market his shit he has become an absolutely obnoxious douchebag. From all of the coaches and trainers the ones I can tolerate are:

>Louie Simmons
>Eric Helms
>Boris Sheiko and his cossacks
>Jim Stopanni
>Stan Efferding
>Dorian Yates
>Dante Trudel

With these guys there is no BS. The exercises are treated as expendable because they essentially are expendable. To put it simply - if you want a big chest and the flat bench isn't helping you, you drop it. If you can't perform a back squat correctly but still want to squat, you drop it.

That's the mindset you should have. Your goal are the gains, not the means in which you achieve them.

>routines like these written by random retards

>P/P/L

>For linear progression.
>With sedentary level joints and tendons.
>With noob level MPS efficiency.
>For people who are new to lifting and have trouble doing three exercises right.
Yeah, sure.

>If you can't perform a back squat correctly but still want to squat, you drop it.

No you lower the weight and learn to fucking squat to depth. ATG high bar squat is a fundamental leg exercise thats one of the best for leg development. While it doesn't cover all muscles it cover the most.

I kind of agree with you on bench but you shouldnt drop it all together you can always add incline or a dumbbell exercise to strengthen the chest.

What the fuck are you on about you autist.

The same could be said about SS/SL - you are asking a couch slob to perform technical movements AND aggressively load them.

Lol. We aren't talking about powerlifting - we are talking about putting on mass. If a back squat fails, there are a million other ways such as box squat, front squat and pin squat.

Why shouldn't I drop the bench if it isn't increasing the size of my chest? You do what works and get rid of the stuff that doesn't.

>Your goal are the gains, not the means in which you achieve them.
Amen, fucking took forever for people to stop telling me that DB bench is stupid because real men bench. Shit like that is obnoxious.

Am I the only person that does both rows and cleans?

The biggest irony is that if you can DB bench more, you will flat bench more. Also, isolation exercises work better for specific development than compounds. Some people are shocked by this.

Anyway, I need to do some Christmas shopping. Toodles.

I agree, however I didn't start making real strength gains until I went from DB or Barbell bench. I also had a problem with swinging one of my elbows out on DB press, while with a Barbell I notice I keep both arms on the same line of movement throughout the workout. Some people need that forced stability that it gives.

Fucking fencesitter. Your kind will be the first to hang when the upcoming programme war comes.

I do rows so my muscles grow.
I do cleans like you've never seen.

I do rows, what's the problem bro?
I do cleans to turn me fuckin mean.

I do rows, and my progress shows.
I do cleans, while you're a fucking meme.

What's your point?
Dogs>cats
I would rather spend 8000 dollars to take care of a dog it's whole life than 50 dollars to see some ugly overgrown cat in a circus. Dogs are man's best friend for a reason.

Neither.
Because if you belong to the main demographic of this site, aka untrained sedentary skinnyfat, THEN strength training is a meme for you.
You will find yourself having wasted a year of your life, having gotten really underwhelming progress, and with no muscles to show for it, literally looking the same.
Just do a volume based routine to put on muscles.
Max effort low reps dont work with skellies

Woth this I mean, learn the big 3, maybe do some LP but the MOMENT you hit a bump and have to deload just switch to a PPL, trust me, it's not worth the effort.
Just look around the gym, allthose shredded guys doing meme routines, they dont even know what a clean is

>Thread is about beginner routines ie. shit for untrained couch potatoes to do.
>Hur these are just for weak skinnyfats.
No shit.

This, a PPL will be more beneficial to most people. Any day where I would have to deadlift, squat, or bench on the same day is a day where I'm incapable of doing one of my big 3s to a great extent because I already wasted all my energy on another big 3. This is especially true for DL/Squats, if I go ham on one for 5x5 I'm not going ham on the other, it just causes too much fatigue.

Not everyone has the proportions to go atg. For lankier guys with long femurs, it is simply not possible to go that deep and trying to force this does more harm than good.

Yeah, I found the same, that's why I started diong the bench or ohp before the squat/dl, the latter were just too debilitating while the reverse is not true.
Mostly what made me realize strenght training is not for me is that after I do my 3 lifts (press, sq/dl, pull of choice) at max effort and low reps, basically doing a 3x5RM for 3 DIFFERENT LIFTS, then I cant add much more volume because my energy is completely depleted, my muscles are sore and my cns is kaput
So I basically completely tired myself, got no strength out of it and not enough volume to warrant muscle growth.

Having said that, I cant stress enough how newbies should learn theory and the mechanics of the lifts.

but yeah, PPL is the way to go for people like me.

As far as I know even power-lifters don't train at high intensities all the time past the intermediate stage. They go as low as 60%RM (20RM) and keep the heavy lifting to peaking periods.

NOT ROWING THE SAME AS YOU BENCH
Fucking normie

>wanting a shoulder blowout

I have modified SL for more upper body

A

Squat 5 x 5
Bench 5 x 5
BOR 5 x 5
Dips 3 x F

B

Deadlift 3 x 5
Press 5 x 5
Pull Ups 5 x F
Curls 3 x F

Gaining like crazy, although I am a lank and eating 3000+ daily so probably newbie gains

When I was starting out I got confused and ended up doing the stronglifts lifts but 3x5 (incl 3x5 deadlift)
worked well enough for me tho

They don't. Constant heavy lifting (SS/SL/ICF/GS/TM) is the worst way to put on muscle but is a good way to get strong at your current weight.

you'll look like this either way.

Starting Strength but substitute Power cleans with Pendlay rows and add lying Tricep extensions and Chin ups

I think I posted this yesterday but I'll post it again. Do either and make them fit your needs and wishes. I started with SL and wanted to get as strong as possible as fast as possible and have big arms, lats and shoulders. So I tweaked it by reducing the volume to 3x5 and adding adding exercises to add volume for arms, lats and mid and rear delts. Just try some stuff and see what works for you.

Well I'll trust Ed Coan over this fat fuck on how to perform a barbell row. Obviously the power clean is a superior exercise tho

>Rippetoe
>the "coach" whose "specialization" is novice training
>still don’t know of a single lifter he has trained
>not random retard

>take a good routine and make it worse
great suggestion

>Pendlay rows are the only barbell rows
Rip, pls

Beginners should do this
jtsstrength.com/articles/2016/03/07/considerations-for-beginners/

mehdi is a faggot but stronglifts

> power cleans use shoulders

have you ever done a power clean in your life?

How the hell are power cleans risky? If you can't generate the momentum to get it onto your shoulders it will just drop down, you're more likely to fuck your back up by doing rows incorrectly.

Someone better tell all of the people who can lift over 400 lbs over their head that they're going to blow out their shoulders. Don't want them to hurt themselves now that a dyel who can't even lift 100 lbs over their head has successfully concluded that power cleans are bad for the shoulders

icf 5x5, alternate rows and chinups, best of both worlds until you're no longer a novice, then you're on your own.

The correct answer is obviously to take a routine and tweak it to your needs after trying it for a few months. Not everyone has the same aesthetic goals. Not everyone wants to be a competitive powerlifter.